337: How to create effective content on a budget | Jared Harman

Think you need a massive marketing budget to create effective content?

Turns out that's not quite true, and there's a smarter way to think about where your money and time should actually go.

So we have Jared Harman on ep 337 of The Content Queen Podcast to give you a behind-the-scenes look at how agency owners and marketers really think about budget, and where the line sits between doing it yourself for free and knowing when to invest.

If you LOVED this episode, make sure you share this on your Instagram stories and tag us @contentqueenmariah and @jaredharman.

⁠⁠⁠⁠LEARN THE DETAILS OF A CONTENT STRATEGY WITH MY FREE AUDIO GUIDE⁠⁠⁠⁠

KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS 👇

✨ Why heavily produced, cinematic content isn't necessary anymore, and why raw, approachable content usually performs better

✨ How to work out which parts of your marketing you can do yourself and which parts you should outsource

✨ The signs that tell you it's time to start investing money into your marketing, not just organic effort

✨ Why your organic content and your ad content can (and often should) look completely different, because what performs isn't always what looks good

✨ Why trust between a business owner and their agency or marketer is what actually gets results

SHOW RESOURCES 👇

If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @contentqueenmariah⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!

Other than that, enjoy - chat next week 💕

ABOUT THE GUEST

Jared Harman is the CEO and Co-Founder of The One Group Agency, a full-service marketing agency based in British Columbia. With a strong background in brand strategy, digital marketing and operations, Jared leads the agency with a clear focus on delivering measurable results while building long-term partnerships with clients. Under his leadership, The One Group Agency has grown into a trusted marketing partner for businesses across a variety of industries, offering integrated services including strategy, creative, content production and performance marketing. Beyond the agency, Jared is actively engaged in community impact initiatives, including supporting local scholarships, mentorship programs and youth sports organisations.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

This is episode 337, and we're talking about how to create effective content on a budget with Jaryd Harmon. Welcome to the Content Queen podcast. I'm your host, Marija, entrepreneur, storyteller, digital nomad, creator of Content Bootcamp and founder of Content Queen, with over 10 years' experience in marketing.

This podcast is here to help you create the perfect content marketing strategy for your business and your business only, blending storytelling and strategy. So, let's get into it. Hello, gang. All right. Content, budgets, I know we don't have endless amounts of money to spend on content creation, and that's totally fair.

Like, we don't need to, right? It's all about understanding our audience, understanding what's going to work for our audience, what's going to connect with them, and how it works in our overall vision of how marketing will perform in our business. Everyone's goals are different. Everyone is going to spend less or more money, depending.

And getting advice from people is amazing. [00:01:00] Hearing what other people do is also great. But it's always coming at it from a lens of, what is going to work for my business? So, I have marketer Jaryd Harmon to come on and chat about this. He's an agency owner. He owns a full-service marketing agency based in British Columbia.

He has a strong background in brand strategy, digital marketing and operations, and he leads his agency with a clear focus on delivering measurable results while building long-term partnerships with clients. He's, under his leadership in his agency, the One Group agency, he has grown a trusted marketing partner for businesses across a variety of industries, and he offers integrated services including strategy, creative content production, and performance marketing.

So, he has had a lot of experience in marketing. He's worked with all sorts of budgets, and it was really cool to have a chat with him about marketing in general, for you to get a little bit of a behind-the-scenes look into how agency owners work, how marketers [00:02:00] work, and really give you a bit of guidance on creating your own content as well.

So, let's chat with Jaryd. Amazing. Jaryd, welcome to the Content Queen podcast. I'm really excited to talk to you. But, um, before we get into all the amazing questions I have for you, uh- ... can you tell everyone a little bit more about who you are? 

Jared Harman: Yeah, I'm a, a like lifelong marketing person. Been doing it for, for what seems like forever now.

And even before I was doing it, I think I've always been one of those people who focus on networking and trying to figure out how to promote things and, you know, always kinda had that interest in mind. So, um, besides that, um, got a couple kids, love golf, getting older but still feel like I'm 20 years old at heart.

So, uh, yeah. 

Mariah: I love that. And, and how did you get into, you know, running your own business and doing your own work? Like, what's your story, your business story? 

Jared Harman: Yeah. I mean, I, I got a late start, I think, relative to most. Um, you know, if I had a regret, that might be it, but I always say at the same time learned a lot along the way to get to where I am [00:03:00] today and to get to that point where I knew it's what I wanted to do.

Um, y- you know, I, I spent a l- a lot of time, uh, working in jobs I loved, spent a lot of 'em in sports. And then right around the time I left the world of sports, I had some opportunities to get involved in some businesses, which is really my first unintentional kinda foray into having my own thing and, and, uh, both of them were complete disasters.

But, uh, but they, they did give me that little taste of what it could be like to work for myself and, um, and, and that kind of inspired me to refocus and, and find something that I loved doing, which was marketing, and so that just kinda became a natural fit for me. 

Mariah: Yeah, I, I guess it wouldn't be entrepreneurship if you didn't have a few fails along the way, a few, um, throw those in the bin, start again.

Jared Harman: Yeah. It's funny, when that, when that happened, like I had so many people tell me that. Like, "Oh, it's just part of, you know, being an entrepreneur. Like, you're gonna fail a couple times." I'm like, "Ah, it'd be way better if I didn't have to do that first, though." But, um, but yeah, I mean, for sure, like definitely learned a lot from it and I think it's, y- there's just like you can't [00:04:00] really define it, but there's like a weird point where you realize like, hey, like I can figure this out, and you kinda start to believe in yourself as having f- in having your own business.

You know, like when I first started I was like terrified, you know, all the standard feelings. But, um, somewhere along the way that, that switched to like, yeah, I could do this and, and, um, and then the, the losses don't feel as bad and, and you learn something from it, like I said, so. 

Mariah: Hmm. Yeah, no, definitely.

And it like, hindsight's a great thing, but in the moment it's- Yeah ... kinda like, "This is not fun." Um, so- Yeah, yeah ... you've had a massive background across like hos- hospitality, you mentioned sports, events, uh, marketing, as you said, and working in agency. Like, what are some of the lessons or takeaways you've had from all that experience that's helped you in what you do with marketing for your clients or marketing yourself and your business?

Jared Harman: Yeah, I mean, I, I would say both hospitality and sports play a huge role in developing and, like, uh, helping, you know, someone learn how to handle being out in, like, the real world and, like, in, in the business world specifically. [00:05:00] Um, you know, hospitality, you know, it's a very fast pace, constantly moving, uh, can't predict what kind of, you know, crap you're gonna deal with on a day-to-day basis and type of people you're gonna deal with on a day-to-day basis.

So, um, and I, I started in that industry when I was, like, 11 years old, so like, you know, really young and just, like, figuring out like, hey, like, some people are nice, some people aren't as nice and, and you know, and all the things that go with it. Um, and, and the teamwork aspect there too, right? Like, you know, um, when you're in a restaurant, you're...

Ev- everybody's kind of relying on each other, the bartender, the kitchen staff, the front of house staff, and you're, you know, you, you kinda all need to be pulling the chain the same way. And, and, um, very similar for me at least with sports, right? Like, team environment, learning how to, you know, work with other people, um, you know, succeed and fail with those people.

Um, not all of them are your... gonna be your best friends or, you know, be on your Christmas card list and, and some people will and, and so, um, and, and, and figuring out what it takes to do that and accomplish something as a group. So I think, um, you know, both those things, you know, [00:06:00] there's a million different examples of them over the years that I did them, but both those things went a long way in helping me understand and I, I think and I hope how to be, you know, a better, um, not just marketing person, but also a leader for the team here.

Mariah: Mm. Yeah, it's so cool how, you know, all the experience you've had in your life you can bring into... You know, you sort of gather them all together and they're never, um, a waste of time or a waste of energy because they all help you towards something. And I mean, a lot of the things that you talk about and what we spoke about back and forth sort of, like, putting together this episode was really around, like, effective content or effective market, um, within a budget, and a lot of people that listen to this show are small business owners, you know, trying to do a lot of work themselves.

And you know, we have these free channels like social media. We have these free opportunities. So there's sort of that balance between, like- Putting money into your marketing, but then also utilizing free resources because we don't have massive budget, and we sort of have this mindset we see, you know, big brands doing massive marketing campaigns and all of this, like, [00:07:00] fancy marketing.

Then we've got, like, small business owners just killing it with a tripod and an iPhone. But I'd be keen to hear a little bit more about your experience with, like, effective marketing budgets and what things you'd share with small business owners that are like, "I feel like I could do it all for free," but also you've gotta put that bit of cash or time into it to make it work.

Jared Harman: Yeah, I mean, I, I think it, the, you know, the most important thing is figuring out, like, where your time is best spent as a small business owner, right? I mean, I think, um, you know, I think quite often if you were to look at the small, like, you know, the startups or the small business owners who are really good at social themselves, it probably comes somewhat naturally to them.

Like, I, I don't think in a lot of cases it's forced or, you know, like, it, uh, you know, I would even bet that most of them were probably doing a lot of social media work and doing those types of things before they even started their business. It just, it, it, like, there's There's so much that goes with, like, having that routine.

Not just- it's not just about being, like, comfortable on camera or any of that stuff, but it's just like, you know, [00:08:00] getting into a rhythm with what to produce and when to produce it. And, and 'cause the reality of it is, like, one of the biggest changes even since we started is, like, the need for, like, you know, cinematic or, like, heavy branded video and content isn't really a thing anymore.

It serves a purpose and it has a place, for sure. Um, but, you know, like y- you'll typically perform better doing more real, approachable content than you will trying to create these, like, fancy ads that look like they're overproduced. Um, so I think when it comes down to making that decision and how you most effectively spend, it, it's really figuring, okay, like, you know, any small business owner currently, there's a million things to do in the day.

Well, you know, what are the things that I know I can crush and, like, knock off my plate really easily by myself, and what are the things that, like, I know I need help with? And, um, you know, for a lot of people, the content side is a challenge. So if you can find someone to work with that can do, you know, create good assets for you at a, at a, an affordable price point, that's awesome.[00:09:00] 

The other big thing too is, like, you know, again, when, when we started, our whole model was going after small to medium business for the, for the same reason. Um, and it was funny, like, we would lose clients 'cause we'd show up with, like, a one-person content team that would, whose output would be the same as, like, a 10-person content team.

And not, that's not to knock that 10-person team, but there w- there, it's changed quite a bit in the last few years, but there's still this mentality, like, if you, if you're paying for production, there better be, you know, lights, camera, action, and all the bells and whistles that go with it. When if you've got someone who knows what they're doing and there's a good outline and a good story, like, it, you know, you could almost accomplish the same with your phone, right?

And so it, it, it, that sh- you know, helping people understand that, that you don't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to produce good content is, is a start. 

Mariah: Mm. And I think the influencers really showed us that. I mean, I remember in 2024 watching a 10-part, no, 50-part series, 10-minute videos of, um, a woman sharing how she married a [00:10:00] psychopath.

Uh, a pathological liar, sorry. And she would film it, like, no mic, no, like, just kinda, like, I mean, for people watching the video, like, it was just, like, you know, almost just facing down. Like, the worst angles, just, like, her in her car. And I mean, obviously that's content creation versus, like, being a business owner.

But I think it really showed us, like, videos like that that sort of- Reached people, got, had impact and, and created sort of community, um, are often those videos. You know, and I think now, and I'm, I don't know if you've seen the same thing, but I, I see now these comments on places like TikTok of these influencers where they're just talking as if they're FaceTiming their friends.

Yeah. And these people, I mean, now it can be a little bit like parasocial, right? These people have these relationships- Yeah ... with these influencers- Yeah ... that have zero idea who they are really 'cause they just see comments. Mm-hmm. But I think that really kicked off, um, you know, for, for business owners and brands that, you know, your Guccis and your Louis Vuittons on [00:11:00] TikTok just have no traction unless they get a Gen Z that just, like, has a camera and just does whatever they want.

But that's why, and maybe you can chime in on this, like, it's important to also know your audience as well because some people resonate with different forms of content, which would, I guess, help you work out where to spend your money and your budget too because some people, you know, for your Louis Vuittons, that is a premium brand, so maybe for them to hire a Gen Z to just do content wouldn't make sense, whereas us small business owners, we don't need that highly production content 'cause it just doesn't resonate either.

Jared Harman: No, no, I think it, it's a, it's a great point. Like, I, I think, you know, going back to that whole cinematic, like, lights, camera, action thing I mentioned earlier, like, that's, like, that does serve and fit, like, those big, expensive brands because there's almost this expectation and, and that they are trying to create that like, "We've got k- all kinds of money 'cause we're big, luxurious, and can afford it, so we should be doing these high-end productions with, you know, J.Lo walking down a catwalk wearing the, you know, the [00:12:00] dress, and the hats, the purse, and, like, all those things," right?

Whereas if you do that as a small business, you're a- you're almost instantly making yourself unapproachable. Mm. And it's like, okay, like, like, who, like, this small business has, you know, J.Lo and all these, you know, bells and whistles. Like, it doesn't make sense, right? Um, I, I think the other thing too, and, like, I would say this is true of just about any brand, big or small, but especially true of small business, there's an element of r- like, relatability and approachability that's so important with the content.

And, and you're not gonna accomplish that with anything super polished and high-end. Like, there needs to be some rawness to it and some, you know, like, so having that influencer, you know, or whoever just, like... It's just, like, you know, the, the unboxing videos which kind of, not as big a thing, but was- Mm ... a big thing for a while.

Like, just watching someone who maybe, like, looked like you or looked like someone you wanted to look like or, you know, whatever, had a lifestyle that maybe you wanted to have or whatever, you know, s- having that natural, normal experience of, like, bringing something home, opening it up, checking it out, trying it on, whatever it might be, um, it, it [00:13:00] kind of, like, dr- it, it, um, drives that ambition even further for the potential client.

And to go back to your comment about the audience, like, for sure. I will say, though, that I think content types are almost, um- applicable across audiences. It's, it's just that it's, you know, like, the style of, you know, videography in this case probably works for just about every audience. What's in that video is what will change.

So like, you know, what age the influencer is, what, what gender, like w- you know, all those things. I think that's where the variables come in. Um, and that will become product-based or service-based and what it is we're trying to promote. But, um, y- yeah, I mean, it's like y- you said this earlier, like, it is so easy to create content, and the days of people analyzing, oh, is that shot properly are, like, so far gone, right?

People... Nobody's questioning that stuff anymore, right? But, and so it's... A- a- and there was a time where it was. Like, you couldn't, like, God forbid, you know, 10 years ago you post something that wasn't over-edited with, like, you know, subtitles and all the, you know, the [00:14:00] different stuff on it, right? So, um, yeah, but I mean, a starting point for everything should always be know who you're talking to, for sure.

Mariah: Mm. And thank God that things aren't over-engineered. Yeah. Like, it just, it, I, I think people forget how long video editing takes, especially with content. Like, you think, "Oh, I'll just do a quick video," and, and you know, it depends on how you want it to look. But if it's over-polished and over-engineered, it takes triple the amount of time, right?

And time, as we know, is money. So I think a lot of business owners save a lot of time in that aspect with the fact that con- content doesn't need to be as polished anymore. Um, I wanted to touch on, like, budget and sort of like when we start to, I guess, put more money into our marketing. So when you're working with, um, small and medium-sized businesses and they come to you and, yeah, they're, they're, they started with, say, like, a social media approach, I think a lot of business owners do because obviously that's, um, an easy thing to pick up and it's free and, and cheap.

When do you recommend people start to go, "Okay, maybe we need to invest in, in a little bit more," whether it is [00:15:00] maybe advertising or hiring someone to pick up the slack or, you know, maybe going, "Oh, let's start a podcast. So if we're gonna start a podcast, maybe we need to invest in a video, a, a podcast editor or a software or something like that."

When do we get to the point where we should start actually? 'Cause I know a lot of business owners also don't put a lot of money into their marketing either because social- Yeah ... media is for free, so they kinda hit a roadblock where they're like, "Oh, well, social media's not working anymore," but it's because they're also not investing in other places in their organic.

Even though organic is technically like a free type of marketing, also at some point we do need to start investing in it, into it. 

Jared Harman: Yeah, I th- I think with any business there's a ceiling on how far you can expand your network and your reach organically, right? I mean, the only, uh, the only exception to that is, is stumbling onto some sort of viral moment that, like, blows your, your profile out of the water.

But if you're banking on that, you've probably got bigger problems. So, um, you know, like, I think, you know, when you launch your business, uh, if, you know, [00:16:00] assuming you're doing a good job on your own or however you're doing your, your marketing, I think, you know, you'll see, like, an initial, I would say explosion might be the wrong word, but an initial jumping-off point where you can see things grow, grow, grow.

And then, you know, like anything in business, it's real- it really comes down to monitoring those levels, the growth of, of, you know, your accounts and what you're doing. And then as you start to see that thing stabilize a little bit, like, that's when you need to start looking. 'Cause at some point you will hit a point where you can't...

You're not getting outside your, your box anymore, right? Mm-hmm. Like, okay, like, you've got your 10,000 followers and, you know, they've been 10,000 diehard loyal followers, but they've just stopped there. Or, you know, you're, you've gone from growing, you know, by 50 a week to five a week, you know, whatever it is, and, and that's when you need to start to look, okay, like I, I might have hit my, my limit here.

So how... You know, the good thing is, is if you've had some exponential growth, you can take that data and start to use that to figure out where and how you spend that money moving forward. Um, the other thing too, again, if you're [00:17:00] growing, like, it, it's the same problem I mentioned before, like resourcing's gonna become an issue.

Because if you're growing, that hopefully that means you're, you know, dealing with other things like product fulfillment and, you know, like all the administrative things that go along with it, right? So which would and should mean less time to, to worry about the marketing, which therefore might i- you know, indicate a need for either some, some internal or external help and, and some additional dollars there too.

It's, it's like anything, it's just trying to project what those patterns are gonna be so you know when to jump in before it's too late. 'Cause the other side of it is you don't wanna be stagnant for too long either, right? You wanna... And then, then you might start seeing a depletion in your audience, which would be even worse.

Mariah: Mm. And you mentioned something interesting, which is the data, because the data will tell us a lot. Do you have any, like, examples or things that have come up for you? Like, you know, um, you mentioned I think the good one is, like, followers on social media, right? Once you hit a, a threshold of like, "Oh, okay, I'm not growing as much as I need.

Maybe I need to expand my reach," or something like that. What can the data tell us in terms of where to put our money, and what examples [00:18:00] have you seen of people sort of using the data to spend their money really wisely in their marketing? 

Jared Harman: Yeah, I, I think, I mean, um, gender's always a big one 'cause I think I've seen a lot of examples where people think that their product or their service is really gonna, you know, hit with one, you know, with, you know, men age 50 plus.

Um, I'm making... 50 plus is probably a bad example for social media, but you- Mm ... you get where I'm going with it. But then after, you know, analyzing things for six months, you see it's, no, it's actually, you know, females who are 35 plus, whatever. You know, like, y- that kind of stuff, and, like, looking for variables that you maybe didn't expect.

Um, the other piece could be is looking at that data and saying, "Okay, like I think I've capped this piece of the market organically. If I wanna reach, you know, 19-year-olds, um, or, you know, people in this city, like I, like I didn't get there organically, so I'm gonna focus my spend there." Because, you know, you, you have reason to believe that there's an audience there for you.

Mm-hmm. Um, which might not necessarily relate specifically to social, but it [00:19:00] just for whatever reason didn't catch organically. So now you start to attack those different areas, um, trying to, you know, stack, stack audiences on top of each other. Then if you start following their habits and what they're doing online, um, and you know how they're engaging, which is an important thing obviously, then you can again just kind of refocus your campaigns to try to encourage more, more interaction, which will help the brand grow as well.

Mariah: Mm. I like what you say. I think there's something in that sort of like, um, we forget with marketing that nothing is ever set, right? So we think, "Oh, well, we're gonna target this audience," or, "Our product is made for this person." I mean, I've worked with a lot of startups over the years, so I see this happen with product development, right?

You p- Yeah ... you create features or you create a product or a sa- like in SAS especially, and then people use it not how it's intended to be used. And so then you sort of go, "Okay, like most of my or if not all of my users are using it in a completely different way," so you sort of have to shift towards that.

But I think there's something valuable in the concept of [00:20:00] understanding that with your marketing as well, and what you just mentioned, like, you know, are there different audiences or different people that you need to market to? And I think we forget that exhaustion of an audience or exhaustion of a type of marketing is okay.

I think we just think, "Oh, well- Right ... I have to be on doing this, you know, organic content," which I think organic content always has a place, but it shifts its focus, right? It may just be for brand awareness. It may not be for conversion if you're starting to run ads. And I think we think, "Oh, well, it has to always work how it used to."

And you see this with even in the TikTok or, or social media world in the content creation space, where they keep trying to do the same video even though it stopped working- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... two years ago, you know? Yeah. Like, and it's- Yeah ... and that's the point. You exhaust it, then you move onto something else.

But I think often sometimes we just like sitting in our comfortable spot of what we always used to do. 

Jared Harman: Yeah, I see a lot of businesses too that get really, um, what's the right word? Like, comfortable with their brand and their organic content, and they don't want to deviate [00:21:00] from their approach. And as we've seen, especially in the last couple years with ads, like the style of content for ads is so, like, especially effective content for ads, is so different.

And like, like I'll be the first to say, like I, I don't like, like it's not aesthetically pleasing to me, like how a lot of those ads look, but they work and they convert. Yeah. And so like, and so even for like our company when we run ads, a lot of times we're k- we're kind of replicating that style, you know, for our industry, even though I would never want it p- posted in our, our organic feed.

And like a lot of times when, whether it's for ourselves or for our clients, we say like, you know, the approach we typically take now is like your organic feed is kind of your, the portfolio you want to represent your brand aesthetically. So it's the, you know, regardless, it doesn't matter the style, but like that's the style that you wanna present.

Your ads need to be whatever's gonna work. Like, and so, and like even if it doesn't match, like you can pull little pieces in and out of it, but like even if it's a completely different aesthetic, like it shouldn't matter, 'cause like if [00:22:00] that's what's performing and the results are there, then and, and there's a argument why that will work there, that's why you need to do it.

And people have a really hard time escaping their organic brand to do what's necessary to convert for ads. Mm-hmm. And you know, like I, like I always say to clients like, "Hey, like, you know, we're gonna present you this strategy. Um- With, you know, and w- and within that it's gonna say why we think it'll work, what we think it'll do, but I wanna prep you, it is gonna look nothing like your feed i- in terms of, like, you know, y- you're gonna probably wince at the style and the, and, and the look of it because it doesn't look anything like what you wanna put out there.

But there's a reason for this and here's why. And, and so trying to get them across that line too can be a challenge. 

Mariah: Mm. Yeah, that's super interesting. I g- I... And the ugly ad is, uh 

Jared Harman: Oh, terrible. Like all the different graphics, and like the emojis dropping in, like it just like it... To me it's just too much.

But like I said, like it w- the, the, you know, you can't, you can't argue with the numbers, right? And, and- Yeah ... um, you know, and again, it depends on the product and everything else too, but like, and the reality of it is, [00:23:00] like there's only so many brands out there that can rely en- entirely on their, their brand itself.

You know, like the Nikes and the Yetis and like all those- Of course ... big companies. Like they don't need to invest. Like they're just gonna produce what they wanna produce 'cause they're beyond that point, right? But like- Mm ... again, like most companies that we're dealing with are, aren't, you know, it's not a bad thing, but they're just nowhere near that.

Mariah: Yeah. And I mean, like, do, does everyone want to do that? And I think that's where like- Yeah ... you know, it's gotta be important with your goals. Like I don't think everyone wants to create the next Nike, they just wanna create the impact in the space that they have. And it's really interesting what you say around, and especially when you're pouring money, like organic content, I think the beauty of it is like you don't see the money you put into it because, like y- Yeah

essentially it's not there, right? And like, like- Yeah ... obviously if you pay someone, yes, it's there, but you don't calculate the amount of hours it takes you- Yeah ... and how much you... 'Cause you just don't do that, right? Not a lot anyway. I think people that are highly productive do, and I think that's great.

And I think that's a [00:24:00] really good decision. I remember someone saying to me, um, years ago when I, I'd had one VA and I was doing my own graphics, and I hate doing graphics, like it's just not my thing. And um, the mentor said to me like, "Oh, well how many hours does it take you to do it?" And she's like, "And how much would you wanna charge yourself per hour?

That's how much you're like losing." And I think that's a good reframe when to like invest in your marketing. I was like, "Oh yeah, good point." So I hired someone to help me with my graphics. So I think we forget that 'cause we don't think about that. But when you're spending money into ad dollars that you can actually see come out of your account, you want them to be working.

So like you'll do I guess- Right ... whatever it takes, even if the content isn't quite what you wanna create. But at the end of the day, people end up on your profile anyway on Instagram, so that's when you can display your best self, and your website can display your best self as well. 

Jared Harman: Exactly, and that's what I was getting at.

Like, you, like that's why you, you, like relying on your, uh, your port- or your profile to reflect- Mm ... your portfolio and your brand is the right [00:25:00] approach because... And then use the ads to get them there however you need to, right? And then when they get there, they can see what you're all about and who you are and all those things, right?

And I think, um, you know, like that, like, it... But again, you'd be shocked at how many, I call them debates, like I've gotten into with clients about, about that because it, it's tough. It's their brand. Like they, they, they have this feeling and this emotional tie to how they think and want it to look, right?

And so, um, and you know, you say to them, "Well, yeah, okay, like that, it'll, it'll look really nice or how you want it to, but you're gonna be really upset when you, you know, your, you know, cost per conversion is $150 or whatever," right? And, and, and you're just lighting money on fire. 

Mariah: Yeah. And that can, I imagine, can be really challenging as a marketing agency because you wanna get the results, and say a client says, "No, we have to do it this way," and then you're the first to be blamed when it doesn't work.

Jared Harman: Totally. You, I, oh, man, like, the amount of conversations I have with our content team [00:26:00] about clients' wants and needs is crazy because, like, you know, and any... Or our strategy team, like, whatever, because they're like, okay, like, they- they'll say to me, "This isn't gonna work," or, "This is gonna look bad," or, "It's not gonna accomplish what they want."

And it doesn't reflect, like, yeah, you almost, like, don't wanna put your name to it to some, in some cases because, 'cause you wanna be able to just tell a, like, win- win, like, talk about all the wins, right? And when you're working on something for hours and hours that you know stands very little chance at winning, but the client wants it, and, like, at the end of the day, it's their brand, their company, their money.

You gotta go with it. You gotta produce what they want. And, um, so you get to a point where you- you're almost, like, kinda, like, h- half-ass putting it out because you don't, you, like, you know it's not gonna be what you want it to be, and you know that it's not something you're proud of. Like, I just had a conversation with the team, like, a week or two ago about, like, it's easy to get in these ruts where you, with clients, if the clients don't wanna do that fun, exciting, creative work.

Um, and- and they're just, they're just, you're just kinda like an [00:27:00] executioner for what they want done versus a client who's like, "Yeah," like, "Tell us what to do," like, "Make this story out of this." Mm. And, like, you could just, you know, on one hand, the content team's, like, lighting up. On the other hand, they're just, like, moping to their desk, right?

And so, um, you know, the challenge for us is both of those clients pay the bills and, and - Yeah ... and you gotta find a way, but, and you- you've gotta work just as hard on the stuff that you maybe aren't as, I wouldn't say aren't as proud of, but aren't as optimistic about as the stuff that you are optimistic about.

'Cause the flip side too, like, I've seen lots of examples where we think, "Oh," like, "this is gonna crush. We di- we killed it with this," whatever, and just flat on his face, right? Like, it's... And again, like, goes back to that you gotta be willing to accept failure and understand that, like, okay, like, not everything's gonna work.

You know, marketing's annoyingly subjective- Yeah ... in that sense, right? Like- 

Mariah: Oh, yeah. 

Jared Harman: Like, I- I always joke, like, if you're, like, a professional marketing person, you have to have a thick skin to some extent. Yeah. Because you have to be willing to fail because it's not just about what you think. You, like, you're not always right.

It's, there's, like, you know, uh, millions and millions of people out there that are [00:28:00] judging your work, and even though you might think they're not the smartest people, like, in some cases, their opinion matters whether you like it or you don't, so. 

Mariah: Yeah. That's such a good point, and I think too, like, there's so many different variables, like, when y- and- and you can't understand every single one of them, right?

You can pull levers and tactics, but yeah, that's, that's such a good point. And one thing that you, you just mentioned which I think is really interesting, so, like, I'm a, I'm a business owner. I'm gonna invest money into extra support, maybe a, whether it's a marketing mentor, whether it's a executor, whether it's a agency, whether it's, um, you know, SEO or GEO, whatever it is.

I think there's something that says, like, to make it effective and to make it work, you almost, you do have to trust The people that you get to help you, right? And you would've seen that. Yeah. Like, the clients that trust you, they're the ones that you get the results. And I think a lot of the times as a business owner, yes, we- I think there's, like, two approaches to it.

Yes, you're the expert in the business. You're the one with the customers and the [00:29:00] clients all the time, so your input matters, but also that person is coming with a wealth of experience that you also need to trust. So it, it's, it's a, you know, a double-edged sword in that way because you gotta, you really gotta build...

And I found that, too, like the customers that, or the clients that give me the input and their expertise and their subject matter expertise, and then they go, "You're the expert, you do your thing," always gets the best results, right? And I'm sure you can attest to that 

Jared Harman: Yeah, it's, to me it's a kind of combination of things.

I think part of the reason that that happens is, like, the agency or the team involved, when they feel like they're a part of the process, the buy-in increases. And, and, you know, there's, you know, a lot to be said for, you know, I, I mean, in anything in life, when you trust someone with something, like, they're gonna feel more a part of it, and then they're gonna be more inspired to do better work, I think.

I think that's a huge part of it. Um, you know, I, I think there's a lot to be said for putting the best and smartest around you, and, and one of the things that we always use [00:30:00] when we're talking to potential clients is like, "Hey, like, you could hire, you know, a marketing manager at X dollars," and, you know, depending on what your needs and objectives are, that might be the right thing for you.

But if you hire an agency, not even just us, like you're, for that same price, if not less potentially, you're gonna get 16 people. Mm. You know, not full time, but like, as opposed to getting like a junior ladder, junior level videographer, you're getting, you know, three or four people with 10, 15, 20 years experience, and same for graphic design, and social media, and like all these things.

You're like elevating your level of expertise. Now, the purpose of doing that is so that you don't have to worry about it as much. And like, on the flip side, for my team, I al- like, they probably are sick of hearing me say this, but like, you know, when people hire us, they hire us 'cause they're, they don't, either they don't wanna do it or they don't know how to do it.

And so in either scenario, they're looking to us to be like, "Hey, like, you guys, like, are the ones who do this for a living. Like, like, I'll go make the widgets, and, and, 'cause that's what I do for a living, but you go figure out how to put that online for me [00:31:00] to get them to buy the widgets." And so, um, so I, I, like, you know, one of my biggest pet peeves is when clients are coming to us saying like, why don't we have any ideas or any thoughts, or, or we're asking them for what they think.

We should be, you know, always leading that conversation with our clients around marketing, and like trying to guide them to the right decisions. Even if, you know, going back to the earlier conversation about how sometimes they just want what they want, well, it's, I always had to argue in my head, it's okay, like, yeah, we might have to appease them here and there, but let, let's try to get them to the point where they understand why- Mm-hmm

we're suggesting what, what we're suggesting. Then they'll probably be on board with it. Like, if they're not agreeing with it and we feel that strongly that it's the right play, we probably just haven't helped them understand it enough yet to, to do it, right? So. 

Mariah: Yeah. Yeah, it's such a good point, and I think, yeah, everyone- We'll sort of, you know, never say never, everyone will sort of start to...

And, uh, especially if they start looking at the numbers and you could say in your monthly meeting, like, "Hey, you know, the reach wasn't where we... or this wasn't where we want it to go because, you know, we, we believe we could try [00:32:00] this." And I think once they start to, you know, see things aren't working, everyone's willing to try something, right?

And I think, um- Yeah But yeah, I, I, I love all, all of what you said and all those points. And I think, um, you know, especially when it comes to, you know, outsourcing and hiring, I think as business owners, especially small to medium, you know, hiring someone full time isn't feasible. Um, it's actually a little bit more risky as well because, like, y- you know, unfortunately business changes in, like, two seconds at least with, like, someone- Yeah

more contractual. You can sort of have that discussion and, and, you know, maybe, um, pause your work together or, you know, whatever it looks like in, in the short term. Whereas obviously with someone full-time, it's a lot harder to kind of make those changes. But I mean, with everything it has, like, its good and its bad.

But it's so interesting what you say, like, usually when people are looking to hire an agency or a marketer, it's 'cause, yeah, they either don't wanna do it or, um, they don't know how to do it. And really I think, [00:33:00] as you said with marketing, having, needing to have a really tough skin, I think we can hold-

that belief to ourselves a lot of the times when we're going, "Oh, you know, I feel like maybe they don't want what I'm offering," or this or that. Like, you also have to remember why they hired you in the first place, and I think that- Totally ... often gives you the confidence to kind of, you know, put your best front foot forward and say, you know, "This is why we think this."

And I think at the end of the day, it's conversations, we're all humans, like, we all can express, you know, what we think and at the end of the day, it's just, it is up to the business owner. Yeah. 

Jared Harman: But yeah. And th- th- we, like, always, there's no bad ideas either, right? Like, i- if, if you've got, you know, some thoughts or ideas on, like, how to help a brand succeed, like, it's, it's...

And again, it goes back to the subjectivity of it all. Like, it's worth putting it on the table and, and, you know, working through why you think things will work and, and, um, you know, going back to the numbers, like the, you know, the old adage, like, the numbers don't lie, right? And, like, that does, that... I think that's been the biggest change too in especially digital [00:34:00] marketing is it, it's really hard.

Like, you, you can back it up or, you know, prove it, prove that it didn't work pretty easily now with, you know, with, with the data, right? And I, I think that's, the, the amount of data that's out there for, to analyze and make decisions is crazy and, and I mean, that's why, like, you know, digital marketing's taken over the way it has.

Like, I, I look at, you know, so many businesses that still advertise in newspapers and TV and radio. Now, I think there's a place for that as long as you have a massive digital budget to support it, but, like, you know, if, if you're talking to a client who's like, "Oh, I was thinking the newspaper or, you know, Google," like- You know, and it, it's still, it's still out there, but it, it's, it's, um, you know, like I, again, I just couldn't imagine lighting that much money on fire all the time and, and, without the, the information to support it.

Mariah: I just want to hijack this episode to tell you about something that is generally helping and changing the game for business owners that I work with. So if you're sitting there at 5:00 PM scrambling, not sure what to do, what to post, you are not alone. And I have in fact been there along with [00:35:00] many other businesses that I've worked with, getting to my laptop, throwing something together, pushing it out there, throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Now, this is not strategy and it really feels like survival. That is why I created Content Bootcamp. It is my signature program that takes you through the seven steps to create a really intentional and aligned content strategy for your business. One that is actually documented, is actually for you, and actually gets results.

So there's no more guessing, no more winging it, and no more content hamster wheel. By the end of your journey in Content Bootcamp, you'll have a clear plan on what to post, where to post it, and why, plus the confidence to actually execute it. And you're not doing it alone because I do live calls all the time, so you'll get access to me.

I can help you with your strategy and a community of other business owners that are doing the same thing. You'll also get lifetime access, so if your business evolves and grows and changes, it will grow and evolve and change with you. So if you are ready to stop winging it and start [00:36:00] being intentional with your marketing, get a strategy behind you, head to 

Jared Harman: contentqueenmirae.com, check out Bootcamp, Content Bootcamp.

I would love to see you there. 

Mariah: Yeah, no, that, that's very true. I had a conversation with like a local... Oh, you would appreciate this as playing golf. Um, as a- ... a golf club locally, um The all volunteer run, very local. Wanted some- Oh, really? ... help with their, their strategy. In Australia, I don't... A lot of the- there's, there's a mixture of golf courses that are ran by employees, and then there's a few that are volunteer.

I've never heard that before. Maybe, maybe they have, like, a greenskeeper that they pay, and then, like, the committee's all, um, volunteer-based. Crazy Yeah. And, uh, yeah, they, they reached out to get some help, and one of the guys who's owned his own business many moons ago was telling me how, telling them to tell me that he used to spend $100 a month and get thousands of leads.

And I was like- ... that's so great. I would love- Yeah ... for, if that would happen now. Yeah. Um, [00:37:00] but you know, obviously times have changed with... A- and I think he advertised in, like, traditional, you know, newspapers and things. But now with the amount of access to content that we have, you know, my dad will say, "Oh, did you see this on the news?"

I'm like, "Oh yeah, I watched that on TikTok." Like, but I've probably got like- Yeah ... four or five different perspectives where you just got kinda one. Um, but now with the amount of content that we can consume, we can also get the most return on investment for our content too, right? So, you know, with the clients that you work with, how do you, what do you recommend to make sure that if we are creating a piece of content or we are doing something, that we get the most return on the investment, whether it's no investment, just time, or actually paying someone to help you with it?

Jared Harman: Yeah, I think, like, one thing that's important to keep in mind is, is, um, the longevity of that content and what... By that I mean, like, you know, everybody does it. You're just scrolling through whatever feed it's on and it's here, then it's gone. Like, you ha- like, I think that's the first step in getting past, like, the need for anything super elaborate when it comes to [00:38:00] content.

Like, hey, like, they're gonna watch it. If, if you've got someone's attention for, like, 30 seconds, you've absolutely killed it. Like, 'cause the reality of it is, like, most people are gone, you know, s- you know, 25 seconds before that, right? So, um, so the point I'm trying to make there is, like, overthinking and overanalyzing, like, what it needs to be and, you know, like, how much time you need to spend on it is, like, the first thing to forget because, you know, the amount of time you've spent doing that probably delayed it to the point where the content was no longer viable anyways, right?

And so I think that that's the first thing, and there's... If you've got a good message and, you know, a good product or service, like, I think just getting it out there in some way will, will w- work almost regardless. Um, you know, I think, um, in, in terms of, like, you know, what to spend and, and when, like, a- again, it just, you've gotta try it.

And, like, I'm not a, you know, math guy by any stretch, but, like, you've gotta try to figure out a way to analyze what the ROI is gonna be for the, you know, the, and you touched on this earlier too, like, the, the [00:39:00] actual hard cost of doing it, plus, like, the time spent by whether it's yourself or your team.

Like, 'cause every, like, every, every hour spent is it's costing you something somewhere, right? So it's, it's, you've gotta be able to say, "Okay, um, X out, Y in." Like, what's, what's that worth to me and, and try to look at everything like that. And the only other approach besides that would be just, you know, constantly pushing content out, like, almost like it's your job, you know?

Like, um, to the point where it just, it, you're putting so much out there it doesn't necessarily matter what the ROI is 'cause you're just constantly hitting people with it. 

Mariah: Mm. Yeah, I think that's a really good point and really good advice. And I think too, like, if you are spending money on your content or you've got a team doing it, what are you doing as well to, like, get the most...

'Cause yes, you're right. As soon as a piece of content goes out, that's why obviously we wanna repurpose and get it on as, like, some other channels if we can. That's why things like long form content is so great, right? 'Cause you get more longevity out of your content because- You know, this podcast can be listened [00:40:00] as soon as it comes out.

It could be li- be listened in two to three years. Some of my episodes from years ago still get listened. Same with blogging. You know, TikTok, I think- Totally ... has, has a much nicer algorithm. You know? Like, I feel like I had a video that went viral six months after I posted it, which was absolutely crazy. Um- That's awesome

you know, lucky it wasn't timely, right? It was just a video, and it wasn't a business video, which is annoying, but anyway, that's fine. It never is. 

Jared Harman: But you can't pr- you can't predict that stuff though. That's the problem, right? That's it. Like I was saying earlier- Yeah ... like, if you're just sitting around waiting for that to happen, like- Ugh

you're probably- No ... it just, it wouldn't have happened, right? 

Mariah: No. And, and 

Jared Harman: that... And, like, when's the last time you, somebody went back to YouTube or TikTok or Instagram to see an informational video or, like, an ad, right? Like, it just, again, it just doesn't happen. So you're just, like, you've got, you've gotta, you know, get past the Again, I keep using the word aesthetic, but the aesthetic of it- Mm-hmm

and just say, "Okay, like how do I get this information out in the best way possible, in the most digestible way possible?" So that when they see the next one tomorrow, there's some relatability to [00:41:00] it and like, okay, they get it. They're, like, that's, it's, you're just really trying to, like, imprint yourself on people essentially.

Mariah: Yeah, and sometimes it is a numbers game, you know? Like, I think it is, and obviously like to the capacity in which you can do it, but, you know, I think it's also important that if you are spending money, whether it's time or whether it is, like, outsourcing, what are the sales or the activities that you're doing to, like, push people further down the funnel?

But then as you said, if you have a great product or service, you know, the marketing will just push that to the foreground if you've got, like, good reviews- Yeah ... good testimonials, et cetera. But a lot of the times, like, um, in my experience, maybe you've had the same thing, like you do all this marketing and then, you know, if the business owner isn't doing their part in terms of, like, optimizing their product or having the sales calls or, you know, networking or going to events or whatever it is that is part of their plan, then obviously y- your content or your marketing can only get you so far, or optimizing their website or anything.

Um, so I think it's always- Yeah ... like if you are spending money in one place, like if you're spending money on your social media or you're inve- you're outsourcing it, [00:42:00] you've gotta also use that time to invest in other things that are gonna push people further down the funnel. Otherwise, you're just leading it to nowhere.

Jared Harman: Exactly, yeah. And I was, honestly, I was just gonna say, like, people have to look at it holistically as well because, like, if you're just, so you're just posting on TikTok, well, you're missing whole other audiences on other platforms or, um, you know, if you're doing all that work on social and say you're covering all the channels but your website doesn't exist or is MIA or, or you're not pushing out, you know, g- looking for Google reviews, whatever it is, right?

Like, you can't just rely on, like, one channel to drive your business. And to your comment about, like, you know, the business owners, you know, we always tell clients, "Okay, like, we're gonna do everything we can to drive people to your business, you know, by phone, by email, by text, whatever, in person." But if we can't do anything once they're there.

Like, you know, if, if, if, you know, you suck at customer service or, or, you know, your product sucks or whatever the case may be, like, they, there's this, there's a ceiling, there's a limit there, right? So, and, and, [00:43:00] um, yeah, I mean, you're, you're not wrong. A lot of times, like you said, the, we'll get the blame regardless, but we try to be as transparent about that as possible.

Like, it's, it's, you know, when we work with restaurants, like, yeah, you can get, there's lots of ways to get people excited about a new restaurant and get them through the door. But if they get there and the service is slow and the food's not good and, you know, whatever, like, don't get mad at us 'cause, like- Mm-hmm

we didn't, we didn't serve them, nor did we cook the food or make the drinks, right? So, um, you know, and it, that's where f- you know, that's where you transition the responsibility to the business owner for that first impression. Like, that's what counts the most, I think. 

Mariah: Yeah, and I think it's important to remember that when you are outsourcing your marketing, that you do have to spend time on all the parts of your business, and I think, um- You know, it, it's natural for that to happen.

Oh, if I just get more eyes on my business, everything will be great and I won't have to worry, but there could be so many gaps. But that's why I think what's interesting about the numbers and the data, you can actually find where those gaps are. You know, I've had clients in the past- Right ... where it's like people are going to your website, but they're not converting.

Cool. You know that you just have to focus on [00:44:00] optimizing your website, and that's great, isn't it? Like, that's a good problem to know, and maybe optimizing it and it still doesn't work. You, like, you've always gotta be, as you said, marketing is subject... I think anything is. Like, you have to, you gotta keep working towards optimizing it 'cause cli- like, things change, clients change, the landscape change.

I mean, Gen Z's come in and made marketing all kinds of odd... I mean, I even saw a guy, I wanna do a whole episode on it. He's a s- he's a therapist, and he commented on some girl's video. It was very strange, her video. And he wrote, he wrote, um- Um, I'm taking appointments if you need them. Just that simple comment, and he got like-

like one million likes or something ridiculous. And then like everyone's in the comments like, 'I think you should contact...' you know, whatever his name is. Y- y- yeah. You know what I mean? Like that type of- Yeah ... that's marketing. Like that sort of stuff- Yeah ... is so funny, and it's just one simple comment on a post.

Um- Yeah ... you know, uh, whether, you know, she, uh, it's obviously mental health is a very sensitive topic, so it's not to like shed light on that. But it's more like how interesting one comment on a piece [00:45:00] of content can create visibility to your business as well, and I think that's... It's kinda cool. Like I know Gen Z's sort of rocked the boat a bit and made us all like, 'Oh my God, what is going on?

What is this landscape?' But I think it's, I don't know, there's, there's good bits to it as well. Uh, everything's always changing. 

Jared Harman: It's also a great example of why you should try different things and do different things, 'cause you don't know what's gonna land. Like you, you, you, you know, like I think, um, you know, I think one thing that's changed in the last couple years is people's willingness to be a little bit more, I don't know, like playful and, and, and, you know, poke fun and, you know, create stuff.

They like, uh, create content that maybe is less focused on the business itself and more focused on just being interesting content that has relatability to the business. Because, um, you know, like i- if you're gonna watch it, like realistically, like, you know, do you really wanna watch an ad about shoes for 60 seconds on Instagram?

No. But if it's some kinda, I don't know, like a, a skit or, I don't know, something that's interesting that happens to also be about shoes, like that's way more intriguing to me. Like I, I [00:46:00] always... We, um, referenced this video that was done, uh, in LA for this real estate agent that was selling this property, and this property had this unbelievable deck.

And they kept talking about how... Like, uh, there's all these people talking about how big the deck was, but obviously the, you know, the in- insinuation was something different. Yeah. And it was awesome, and it was like so creative. And like, like I don't live anywhere near LA. I'm not buying real estate there.

Like I have no interest in it at all. I watched all two minutes of it 'cause it was hilarious, right? Yeah. And like that's the kinda stuff that like, you know, trying to find ways to be creative around topics that generally aren't super creative or like aren't thought to be as creative or people aren't used to seeing creative content around can go so far, right?

Like I think that, that video's got like four million views. You know, like only one person can buy the property. Like, you know, like I'm, I'm sure it sold like 10 years ago at this point. Like I don't even know. But, um, you know, it's, it's, it's, that's where you've gotta be willing to push some boundaries and like find, you know, find ways outside of your comfort zone to, you know, create some conversation about your product or service.[00:47:00] 

Mariah: Mm-hmm. Yeah, such a good point. I mean, at the... I went to a lunch on Friday and a- an economist in Australia spoke at it. And, um, someone said, 'Oh, I love your dancing on LinkedIn.' And I was like, 'What?' So I looked at her profile, and yeah, she does like say TikTok skits about- the economy and economics- Yes ... on her LinkedIn.

And I thought it was quite interesting 'cause she's kinda taken something that is, like, so, you know, like, it... Oh, sorry, my brother's messaging me about house- Yeah ... we're house-sitting for him. Let me- Let me snooze him. Um, yeah, like, something so dry and, like, you know, serious, right? Money, everyone, like- Yeah

and then she did a video, like, um, it was, y- you know, Australia's Rich was, like, the, the title, and then it was like, "Do I think Australians are complaining? Yes, I do." And I'm like, "Whoa, that could, like, really rattle some cages." But she's, like, so, she's doubling down, like she's an economist. Yeah. She actually sees it every day, like she knows the landscape of the, you know, the economy, obviously maybe not to the [00:48:00] details of things she might not be seeing.

But yeah, it was just like, I thought that was such an interesting take on a platform that can be so serious, and it, I mean, I guess it work- I mean, I don't... She doesn't have a business. She's just an economist. But, like, you know- Yeah ... she, she gets asked to come and speak at things, like we, we, the, the company that I went to this lunch for, they had asked her to speak.

So, you know, it's s- sort of interesting how much it's changed and everyone is willing to, yeah, take a joke or maybe also not, but then also at the same time, like, we kinda just roll with it, right? The cancel culture's huge, but I think it's also, like- Yeah ... you get un-canceled just as quick as you get canceled these days.

Jared Harman: Totally, yeah. It's k- it's kinda coming back a little bit, but like I, I, I was, like, growing up as, like, a sports fanatic, you know, like, and listening to sports talk radio and sports on TV, like the broadcasters who are the most popular are the ones who aren't afraid to, like, say how they feel and, like, put it out there.

Definitely not always the most popular thing to do, but, like, the ones with an actual personality are the ones that people wanna tune into, and they're the ones that are making the big bucks. Like, it's not any [00:49:00] different when you, you know, politicians, I don't wanna get into a whole political thing, but you look at the people getting elected these days and all that kind of stuff, it's, they're, they're out there.

There's, you know, there's, there's, there's comments and stuff like that, and it's, it- Like, you know, no- the, the old saying, like, any news is good news, not entirely true, but like, you know, the... But if you can create conversation, now you've got engagement and community and, and, and you can, you know, obviously ideally positive, but you can start to drive that and, um, and, and again, if nothing else, worst-case scenario, look at that data and see who's interested in what you're doing and, and build from there.

Mariah: Yeah. 

Jared Harman: I think that's the part that people overlook the most is like, y- it doesn't always have to be a home run. Like, any data you can gather to help guide your business decisions is gonna be helpful. 

Mariah: Mm. Yeah, that's such a good point, and I, and I like what you say. I think it's like, um, you know, at the end of the day, you...

Like, you have to... The opinion you have or you're putting yourself out there, if [00:50:00] you trust yourself and you believe in what you sell and what you know and what you teach, like, yeah, people are gonna disagree. I think that's just unfortunately the more people you reach with your social media content, the more people...

Like, I do content for a local restaurant, um, and they've been around 20 years. They create really great food. Obviously some people don't always have the best experience. That's just what happens. You have old staff that come out of the woodwork. We always notice on a full moon we seem- ... to get more negative comments than usual.

Yeah, yeah. But you know what? It just happens, and you've gotta, like, have your response. You have your, you know, your dedicated response. You, uh, you have your rule, like I delete anything that's, like, personal about the person on the screen. Like, if it's about a team member, about their appearance, like- Mm-hmm

that just gets deleted. That's a non-negotiable. Everything else I just kinda leave 'cause at the end of the day, like, I think if you had all five stars and all great comments, people probably wouldn't trust you anyway 'cause they'd be like- No ... "Oh, that feels like a bit of a red flag." Unfortunately, the way the social media, we have so many keyboard warriors out there that you just un- you just have to kind of like- Yeah

I had, I had a TikTok about my health. I had a very [00:51:00] serious operation, and I was diagnosed with cancer at 26, and I had- Wow ... someone say to me, "It's not even that big of a deal." And I went, "Oh, I'm really sorry that you think that," 'cause that was horrific. Like, that was the worst thing I've ever gone through.

I said, "Have you had a Whipple's?" And they're like, "Oh yeah, I have." And I'm like, "Well, I'm really sorry because, like, for me, that sucked. Like, I would never wanna wish that upon anyone." Right. And then they started following me and liking all my content. Christ. So I think some people, you know, they just, they just, uh...

it's their reflection on themselves, unfortunately. Just gotta kinda tune out to that sometimes. 

Jared Harman: Yeah. When you're involved in any kind of business that has any kind of public-facing profile, and this goes back, like, before, you know, digital media, but e- especially true digital media, like, you, you have to accept v- very quickly that the negative people are always gonna be the loudest.

Like, people don't often take the time to provide positive feedback online 'cause they had a good experience, they're not really thinking about, like- 

Mariah: Mm. 

Jared Harman: I- it's, like, almost like you, like, if you think about any time that you've left a positive review, I bet you've [00:52:00] generally been asked to do so, or, or the experience was just so positive that, like, you couldn't resist doing it.

And, and whereas if, if you've had a negative experience somewhere, you're kinda fired up and you're like, "Oh," like, you know? And, and, and, and, like, to your point about pe- a reflection of people's own, you know, selves, like, a lotta times it, it's sad and unfortunate, but people are just, like, they're utilizing that as an outlet for their own stuff.

Mm. You know? Um, so it's, it's, um... And that's, I, I agree. Like, you know, like, some people get panicked about, like, the one or two bad reviews or this, that, or the other, and it's like, well, it, it, you can't really think that everybody thinks that everybody who's come to your business had, like, the most amazing five-star experience ever.

And so to me, and the approach we take with a lot of our clients is if somebody's had a bad experience, and to your point, as long as it's not a personal attack or anything like that, we, we often show our res- or, or tell our clients to show, like, to respond and, like, in a positive way and, you know, show that you're trying to earn their business back.

And, you know, a lotta times even then they still come [00:53:00] at you. But most reasonable people will look at that and be like, "Yeah," like, okay, like, their food came out cold. The restaurant offered them a free dinner next week, and they still kept attacking them. Like, that's not about the restaurant, that's about that person, right?

Like, so, um, yeah. You, you, like, it... And again, going all the way back to the comment around, like, real raw content, it's no different with those types of things online. Like, it, it, people are gonna see through the rose-colored glasses that you try to implement if that's what you're doing. 

Mariah: Mm. So. Yeah. That's such a good point.

No, it's, it's, it's definitely a, um, a personal journey when you start your own business. You have to- Yeah. Um- Yeah ... you can't take anything too s- personal because otherwise you'll never show up online, you'll never grow your business, you'll never serve customers. And of course we have our moments, like, we have our weeks where we're like, "Oh- I can't do this, I just wanna like close my laptop and go on holidays for like two weeks.

Yeah. But, you know, unfortunately it doesn't end, and you get through and then there's like, it's just such a rollercoaster, but I think it's like that with anything when you have a job [00:54:00] working for someone else, it's the same thing. You have the same rollercoasters, you just probably don't have as much emotional attachment to it because it's not something that you're actively growing yourself and you've put all your blood, sweat, and tears, and like lots of tears I'm sure.

And like, it's so, it's, it's more personal than if you worked in maybe a corporate job and you got some negative feedback from your boss. Totally. Like it obviously cuts a lot deeper. And I have that, I've had like a client, I said the one that works business for 20 years, that's why they brought me on because they couldn't ha- like the good comments and the bad comments, they really struggled with the bad comments a- and they've been around for 20 years.

So now that I handle it and, and we all like, we can all kind of group around and do it together, and then we sort of talk about it and, um, you know, whatever we need to do to like, um- You play down the situation, make the person feel better, but, um, you know, the owner still takes it really personally, and it's been 20 years.

So, like, I don't know that it gets... It definitely gets easier, but there's... You have your days, right? There's always gonna be those days. 

Jared Harman: Yeah. B- but the, y- your brand's also an extension of yourself too, though, right? So, like, it's hard, [00:55:00] like, you know, and when you're the owner and, and, you know, for better or worse, you're pouring everything you have into it, not just financially, like time, energy, all of it, and effort.

Yeah, it sucks. It, like, it w- you know, it's... I, I can appreciate that 'cause it's hard to get past the personal aspect and, like, how much that thing, you know, means to you. Like, I, I k- I kinda liken it, you know, to being a parent. Like, I'm not naive enough to think that my kids don't do stupid stuff and, you know, deserve to get in trouble sometimes, but they're still my kids, and I still love them.

Mm. And so, like, I, I don't... I'm not gonna, like... Like, if somebody came up and said, "Oh, you know, like, your, your daughter did this," I, I, I, I'm not gonna be like, "Oh, yeah, like, that doesn't matter." Like, it's still, it's still, like... It's the same thing with your business. I mean, it's not... Like, I'd probably get in trouble for saying it is at home, but is it

But it is the same thing as your business because you care about it so much- Yeah ... and you put so much time into it, right? So. 

Mariah: Yeah. I, I mean, I don't have kids, but I can understand, and I know, like, it's... I remember with my parents, like, say, I don't know, I drank too much alcohol and I acted silly. Like, you can see the next day, like, you know, my parents are worried, like, "Have I offended anyone in the community?

Have I, like, done [00:56:00] anything?" No. You know, it's like a extension of them, so they're like, you know, worried or- Exactly ... actually, maybe not so much my mom. My mom couldn't care, but my dad's always like- ... "Oh, don't drink so much." Like, you know? Yeah, yeah. So it's like- Yeah, yeah. ... it, I think it's the same thing. Like, your kids when they do things that maybe you wouldn't do, or in the way you're always stressed about, like, you know, what's, what they've done, what's happening, you know, all the things.

But at the end of the day, like, this, you gotta back 'em 100%, um- 

Jared Harman: Totally ... 

Mariah: anything they do. Well, thank you so much, Jared. This was a really great conversation. I loved chatting with you, and, um, it's, it's really good to sort of look at our businesses from, like, a different lens, a different angle, look at where we can, like, make improvements or invest our time and money because I think, like, we get so set in how things should be, and it's really good to have a fresh perspective on, like, how things change and evolve, and it's good to hear from someone that's, you know, been in marketing, has seen the evolutions of how things have changed.

So yeah, thanks so much. How can people find you, stalk you, learn more about what you do? 

Jared Harman: I don't know about the stalking part, but they can definitely Yeah ... they can find me at our, uh, website, uh, onegroupagency.ca [00:57:00] or, or, uh,

definitely feel free to message me on LinkedIn. Uh, Jared Harmon, uh, on LinkedIn and, uh, happy to connect. Always love meeting new people and, and helping out wherever I can. 

Mariah: Amazing. Thank you so much. 

Jared Harman: Thanks a lot. 

Mariah: What did you think? Was it insightful? For me, I found it really insightful to talk with another marketer, to hear from that sort of behind-the-scenes lens of being a marketing agency owner, talking about budget, him having multiple different relationships and roles across various different businesses, and he's really seen it all.

So it was cool to hear from someone that has seen it all, get that validation, get that grounding. So I hope it was really helpful for you just to sort of understand what you could do in your own business. But be a content queen or king and remember that developing your strategy and story develops your business.

Thank you so much for joining me today, and please don't forget to share this with all your business and entrepreneurial friends. If they've been talking about marketing, marketing budget, hiring agency, not hiring agency, I think it's a great one for all business owners to listen to. You can do that by [00:58:00] clicking the share button.

You could leave a rate and review, five stars, leave some comments. It allows us to get more great guests on like Jared because these people... Like, I'm getting the emails of pitches. There's lots going on in the background with the podcast, and this happens because you have left a rating review. So if you have, thank you so much, and if you haven't, I would love for you to hit the five stars or leave a comment on this episode.

On Spotify, you can do it all the time. On Apple, you can leave a one-off review. But it really does help me continue to get amazing guests to continue to deliver this content for you to help you with your business. You can follow me on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, all the platforms, and if there are any topics you want me to talk about in the future, please let me know.

I've got a list from chatting with you all, but I would love more on the list, and I will talk to you soon. Bye.

PodcastMariah MacInnesmarketing, marketing advice, how to be authentic online, business ownerComment