335: The missing skill behind business growth and marketing growth | Shari Foos

Want to actually connect with the people you're marketing to?

Turns out the skill that changes everything isn't a content hack, it's vulnerability.

So we have Shari Foos on ep 335 of The Content Queen Podcast to talk about why vulnerability might be the most underrated skill in business and marketing, and why it's not about oversharing or crying on social media, it's about being real enough that people can actually relate to you.

If you've ever felt exposed after putting yourself out there online, or you're struggling to figure out what "being authentic" even means for you, you gotta listen...

If you LOVED this episode, make sure you share this on your Instagram stories and tag us @contentqueenmariah and @thenarrativemethod.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LEARN THE DETAILS OF A CONTENT STRATEGY WITH MY FREE AUDIO GUIDE⁠⁠⁠⁠

KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS 👇

✨ Why vulnerability isn't a liability, it's the human connector, and why people buy you as much as they buy your product or service

✨ The difference between selling and telling, and why sharing examples of people you've helped lands better than making big promises

✨ A simple self-soothing tool (hand to heart) for getting through the vulnerability hangover after you put yourself out there

✨ Why our brains are wired to treat social judgement like physical danger, and how understanding that helps you stop being so hard on yourself

✨ Why responding to criticism with empathy instead of defensiveness stops things escalating, on social media and everywhere else

SHOW RESOURCES 👇

If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @contentqueenmariah⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!

Other than that, enjoy - chat next week 💕

ABOUT THE GUEST

Shari Foos, MA, MFT, MS, NM, is a therapist and the founder of The Narrative Method, a nonprofit 501(c)(3) and free online creative writing experience serving more than 40,000 participants worldwide. The program provides a safe space for individuals to write to prompts, access their authentic voice, and connect deeply with themselves and each other through structured storytelling and relational mindfulness. Drawing on her background in Narrative Medicine and her psychotherapy practice, Shari developed a framework that helps individuals separate from the noise, social pressure, and unrealistic narratives that shape modern life. Her work has been implemented across a wide range of communities, including partnerships with the Los Angeles V.A., universities, nonprofit social service organisations, and LAUSD through teacher trainings, student programming, and facilitator certification.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

This is episode 355, and I'm talking about the skill behind your marketing and business growth with Shari Foos. Welcome to the Content Queen podcast. I'm your host, Mariah, entrepreneur, storyteller, digital nomad, creator of Content Bootcamp, and founder of Content Queen, with over 10 years experience in marketing.

This podcast is here to help you create your ideal content marketing strategy using storytelling and strategies, of course. A plan that's really tailored to you. So let's get into it. Hello, gang. All right, great episode today. Series of events that unfolded for this episode, and I wanna share because I think this, this can happen when we're collaborating with people, we're sharing our knowledge online, we're in this business world.

So- I had Shari and her team reach out to be on the podcast. We, I went back and forth with her team to settle on a topic, and sent through the questions, and then rolled up to the interview, and we both had a miscommunication in, yeah, just how we wanted [00:01:00] this episode to go, which totally happens, right? So what we ended up doing is pivoting the podcast, having a conversation, and I think it just really highlights, you know, just how powerful the topic of vulnerability is, which is what we're talking about in this episode.

Because vulnerably, I shared, "Well, oh, okay, this is where I thought it went." And, like, there was no people-pleasing involved in this transaction. It was pure vulnerability of us both, both going, "Okay, I think there's been a miscommunication, so let's, like, do the episode anyway and see how it went." And it was such a good conversation.

I loved chatting with her, and even though what she does is so broad, it's not just for business owners, it's for anybody, I think the power of vulnerability is something so powerful in our content and in our marketing and in our business. I think it makes us better leaders. It helps us show up. And in this world of AI, this level of vulnerability is something that we can give to our audience.

So it was a really powerful episode, and I'm really excited for you to listen to it [00:02:00] and, yeah, see what comes up from you. Does it mean you have to share every little secret online? Absolutely not. But it's putting your hand up and going, "I don't have, always have the answers," or, "This is how I'm feeling," or, "This is how we're navigating things."

Does it mean crying on social media? Also no. But, um, I'm, I'm just really excited for you to, to dive into the power of vulnerability in our content. So let me introduce Shari. Shari Foos is a therapist and founder of The Narrative Method, a non-for-profit, and a free online creative writing experience shared with more than 40,000 participants worldwide.

The program provides a safe space for individuals to write to prompts, access their authentic voice, and connect deeply with themselves and each other through structured storytelling and relational mindfulness. Drawing on her background in narrative medicine and her psychotherapy practice, Shari developed a framework that helps individuals separate from the noise, social pressures, and unrealistic narratives that shape modern life.

[00:03:00] By writing freely without criticism or judgment and witnessing others with silent appreciation, participants build self-confidence, creative flow, and the ability to form meaningful connections. Her work has been implemented across wide range of communities, including partnerships with Los Angeles VA, universities, non-for-profit social service organizations, and through teacher trainings, student programming, and facilitator certification.

So let's chat to Shari about 

Shari: vulnerability. 

Mariah: Amazing. Well, welcome, Sherry, to the podcast. Um, I'm excited to have a conversation with you. It may not go the way that we had intended, but that's fine. Um, can you tell everyone a little bit more about who you are and what you do? 

Shari: Thank you so much. I'm really happy to be here.

Um, so I am a marriage and family therapist, and 12 years ago, um, I founded an organization called The Narrative Method, and the idea was to really address [00:04:00] people's inability to communicate and to connect meaningfully through no fault of their own. Um, I think that as tech has become bigger and bigger, um, people have lost those kinds of skills.

Um, but those skills are really essential to making every business work, and every business is made up of relationships, just like the rest of life. So what I try and do is to provide experiences, um, for organizations, businesses, and individuals to come together and have an, an opportunity to creatively express themselves in ways where they can instantly see in real time the impact of their communication style 

Mariah: Amazing.

I'm curious to know when people come to a session, what are sort of the conversations that you're having? How do you prompt people to have those [00:05:00] creative conversations? 

Shari: Yeah, that's a good question. Well, um, w- for the online salons that we offer, um, people come from all over the world and, um, they last one hour, and it's a really fast hour of both creative writing to prompts, you can take it absolutely anywhere, um, and breaking into smaller conversations with smaller groups and individuals.

And by helping people understand that it's only when we put aside our self-consciousness, um, which is not easy to do, but that we can really be real. When you are connecting to someone without hesitation to express your struggles as much as your successes, you are completely relatable. If someone just tells you, "Well, we've achieved this, this, this, and this", you're creating a hierarchy that is [00:06:00] hard t- to even feel safe to break through.

But when you balance that with a bigger, fuller picture, it can really inspire people to understand that contrary to popular belief, our vulnerability is not a liability. It is the human connector. Because even if someone has never been through your exact experiences, we all understand feelings, and when we can put ourselves aside and empathize with someone else's experience, we can really deeply connect, and shockingly, immediately.

Mariah: Mm. It's so true. I mean, I guess we see this in the online world now, where people are showing up on social media and, and sharing, you know, to random people all over the world. I mean, we have a massive influencer and content creator industry of people sharing things that you think, "Oh my God, I've never said that out loud."

How have you seen [00:07:00] social media change the vulnerability? Have you seen it become more like, "Oh, we have to be more polished," or we let our guards down more because we see people doing it online all the time? 

Shari: I think both of those are unproductive. The only way we are going to really get across what we are trying to communicate is by being a real person, not by bragging ab- Not by trying to be a certain way.

So in my opinion, far more impactful in this day and age than our families of origin or our education or our peers is exactly what you're saying. I call it the cult of culture, the nonstop barrage of noise and criticism through which all of us, crazy, we are all connected because we all suffered this thing, but this thing shapes us, and we all get the [00:08:00] message that we're not good enough, and we all get the message, "Who do you think you are?"

And it's perfect because they make us vulnerable and, and insecure and primed to buy a product. Um, and as we know, buying products may make you happy for a little bit, but connecting with someone meaningfully in business, um, understanding and being able to identify with someone's struggles and what they're searching for and what they're trying to accomplish is a bond.

But when it's coming from a place of, "I think I should do it like this because I wanna seem like that," it, it just falls flat. 

Mariah: Mm. Yeah, I think there's been a massive shift, and I know for myself, it's like people buy you as much as they buy your products and services. So- For 

Shari: sure ... 

Mariah: when you're putting yourself out there, whether it is in person, you're speaking in front of a group of people, whether it is on social media, [00:09:00] which is the easiest way for us now to reach, you know, an abundance of people, we are selling ourselves in that way, and I know that from, you know, even as s- lots of service-based business owners sort of already kinda get that because you're working so closely with a client.

But even a product, um... It's so interesting, I have a client that, um, has a product-based business, and every time they show up themselves and share their own journey or their own story, it's always the content that resonates, and it's always the stuff that people actually connect with and the purpose and the why behind why they do what they do, and that's why we've seen, you know, those, um, products that now are pretty, um- Just trying to sell to us all the time.

That's why ads now h- are so different. Ads are now really relatable and really connecting. Did you see that really shift during the pandemic? Did you see that shift- Oh, yes ... in people wanting to have that connection? 

Shari: Yes. And, and by the way, when you talk about selling yourself, selling [00:10:00] yourself, we're all so used to it.

We all know what it smells like. Mm. We see it coming. But if you focus less on selling yourself, if you believe that what you're offering is something really good, then tell about it. Don't sell it. Mm. Share about it. Give examples of other people who have benefited, rather than, you know, making it out to be a cure-all.

When we go too hard, and I think that's why so much advertising has become low-key now, and I don't know what they have, um, in other places, but in the States- 

Mariah: Yeah ... 

Shari: television commercials have become funny. Not all of them, but I think the result is, okay, I can believe funny. Yeah. I can't believe, uh, ridiculous promises, but show me your humanity through your sense of humor, and I can relate, and I trust you.

Mariah: Mm. Yeah. It's, [00:11:00] it's so interesting. My dad is, like the biggest ad enthusiast now because ads are more entertaining and engaging. He now, like, knows ads because... And he's all, "Have you seen that ad with the..." Or he'll quote an ad. Like, it's actually pretty sad. That's how much TV he must be watching. But, um, I- it's so true.

What about when y- when, say, people come to the salon or, you know, and I'm sure you've seen it, um, online as well. I imagine it's pushing through those, those barriers of being open, and I see this a lot on social media. Like, it's not until we really open up and be authentic that we do start to see that connection, and, and we build, um, community.

What advice do you have for people that are really struggling, I guess, to find what authenticity means for them, or to be vulnerable? 'Cause I mean, not of a lot of us are used to or always used to being the high achiever, the top performer, and I imagine it's the same in the corporate space, right? When people let their guard down, that's when actually the results [00:12:00] happen, and we're all human, and we start to work together, and we have honest conversations.

But what sort of, um, yeah, advice do you have for letting your guard down and sort of, you know, being more authentically you? 

Shari: Well, for me, that is one of my biggest goals for people, is how can I be who I am? If I show you who I am, any human can relate because we have the same needs. We have the same insecurities, although we don't realize it because people don't go around, you know, announcing, "Wow, I feel really insecure in a crowd."

But if you do, lots of people, I mean, on a big Zoom, they're gonna nod, and all of a sudden your ideas shift. They can shift on a dime. It doesn't mean your whole life is going to shift immediately, but when people come to something new, they're often trepidatious. Why not? How can you expect or why should people let down their guard until they feel safe?[00:13:00] 

So one of the things I try and do is let people know that lots of people feel trepidatious. Why should you trust some- First of all, in, in the case of our salons that are free, um, everyone knows that if something is free, there's an upsell, there's a come-on. Everyone knows that if you're asked to... knows if you're asked to share your story, you better make it seem good.

But over time, when you realize you're in a safe space, in the case of these c- um, things that we do with individuals that all just bring themselves from all over the world to these salons- Some people are more comfortable expressing themselves than others. For other people, they have so many hurdles to get through, and it takes time, but that is the best spent time you can have in your life.

[00:14:00] It impacts your personal relationships, your loving relationships, families, all of that. So I think the best advice is to try and find a safe space where you won't be judged. Even in a business that is very buttoned up and they have their goals and they have, you know, the, the, the points they need to hit on a regular basis, you can't always take that approach.

Somebody might be crying in a corner. I remember years ago, I was in this, um, situation where, um, somebody had just... Uh, my superior had insulted me, and I was sitting in a group, and tears were streaming down my face, and not one person said, "Are you okay? What's going on?" And there's something insane about that.

Mm. We've seen that happen in all environments. So [00:15:00] rather than thinking of digressing to people's human experience and to their feelings, if you understand that embracing that makes them more committed to working with you, more committed to trusting you. So when you can trust other people, what happens is suddenly your defenses and their defenses shrink And when your defenses drop and you feel listened to, nobody has to solve your problem.

Their very presence is liberating, and that's a bond 

Mariah: I just wanna hijack this episode to tell you about something that is generally helping and changing the game for business owners that I work with. So if you're sitting there at 5:00 PM scrambling, not sure what to do, what to post, you are not alone, and I have in fact been there, along with many other businesses that I've worked with.

Getting to my laptop, throwing something together, pushing it out there, throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what [00:16:00] sticks. Now, this is not strategy, and it really feels like survival. That is why I created Content Boot Camp. It is my signature program that takes you through the seven steps to create a really intentional and aligned content strategy for your business, one that is actually documented, is actually for you, and actually gets results.

So there's no more guessing, no more winging it, and no more content hamster wheel. By the end of your journey in Content Boot Camp, you'll have a clear plan on what to post, where to post it, and why, plus the confidence to actually execute it. And you're not doing it alone, because I do live calls all the time, so you'll get access to me, I can help you with your strategy, and a community of other business owners that are doing the same thing.

You'll also get lifetime access, so if your business evolves and grows and changes, it will grow and evolve and change with you. So if you are ready to stop winging it 

Shari: and start being intentional with your marketing, get a strategy behind you, head to contentqueenmariah.com. Check out boot camp, Content [00:17:00] Boot Camp.

I would love to see you there. 

Mariah: Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, you mentioned the judgment, and I know, um, being open and vulnerable can often feel, um... Well, as Brene Brown says, like, the vulnerability hangover. I imagine- Mm ... there are people each week that come to the salon, and maybe over time they get through it.

But what are your recommendations for that vulnerability hangover? I know it's happened to me before. Yes. I've done a workshop, or I've spoken in front of a group of people, and then I'm overthinking, like, "Oh, I shared that. Should I have shared it in that way?" Or, you know, you, you... Maybe I sometimes get them recorded and I watch back and I go, "Oh, I can't believe I said that."

What advice do you... I know a lot of us have the vulnerability hangover every time we do, like, a workshop or an online presentation, or we speak to a group of people and we feel really exposed. Um, I would be keen to hear, because obviously you create a space where people are vulnerable all the time 

Shari: Yes.

Well, I think there's two things. The first thing is to understand that the reason that we [00:18:00] are defensive is not a choice. It's not... We may be traumatized, but it's not simply trauma. It's that our brains are designed to constantly scan for danger, and your brain doesn't know the difference between social j- danger and a lion.

And so the first thing I tell people is don't, um, don't deny, defend, or be angry at yourself for being defensive. Appreciate your brain is doing what it's meant to do That said, we have to upgrade our brain and to be able to say to it, "You know what? Thank you, but this is good. I've got it." And it's really what you do.

I mean, imagine in a first love where everybody's afraid to... It's like, are we moving closer to kiss? I mean, what are we gonna do here? And that kind of fear, it makes sense, [00:19:00] and there's something so beautiful in its awkwardness because it's real. So I think if you are finding yourself being critical, one tool that really help- two tools.

The first thing is appreciate that it's normal to be critical, and that the goal is to understand where that's coming from. Is the self-criticism coming from realizing that you left something out that's important? If that's the case, you know, we, we all make mistakes, we're not perfect, and it's important to learn ways to self-soothe.

I've a very quick thing that I do all the time. It's... I mean, it, it, it occurs in many different practices, but I call it hand to heart, and it's something you can do in public anywhere. Just either put your hand on your heart or any pulse point and connect with your [00:20:00] heartbeat, and from that point, you can be both your mother and your vulnerable self.

So the hand, the dominant hand that is touching your heart or your pulse point, is saying, "It's okay. It's okay. Doesn't have to be perfect." And from the inside, you feel taken care of. These kinds of tools that are not necessarily given, um, to us as children, because not all parents are educated in what it means to be a psychotherapist, um, but when we can learn how to self-soothe, we can get through tougher times, and you realize, just keep going.

Do it again. Do it again. No matter how many times you think you fall down, if you get up and do it again, when you finally look back, you will realize it's not as hard or as horrible as it was at the [00:21:00] beginning And there's always the possibility, if you feel safe, to speak about it honestly with that person.

"I feel like we had a miss. I feel like I, I didn't express really what I meant." And you might ask them to reflect it back just to make sure, "I don't know if I was clear. Tell me what you, what you heard me say." And then you have a chance not to be, um, critical of them, or even critical of yourself, but to clarify.

Just because we speak the same language, it doesn't mean we're communicating. But in live or online communication, it's our facial expressions. Like, I can say, "I l- I love you, okay? I love you." Well, you're gonna get a sense from that that might be very clarifying. 

Mariah: Mm. 

Shari: And so when we can start to read the room, which is important in all circumstances, if you have [00:22:00] an intention to talk about something, and you're reading the room, and somebody's crying, rather than pre- I mean, it's a small group, rather than pretending that that's not happening, address it.

And you can also offer something of your own vulnerability. "I know what that's like." I, I, I could say, "Well, I had this experience once, and it was... I just felt so lonely. So it's, it's okay, you know? Do you need to step out?" Attending to people's human- Vulnerabilities, maybe even weaknesses, however you wanna look at it, or fears, is really the way to get them to open up.

Mm. And if you want it to business, if you wanna be creative with somebody, you've gotta help them get past their defensiveness. 

Mariah: Mm. It's so interesting, 'cause something so small in what I do is it can be [00:23:00] really significant. Something that feels small can feel really significant for people, and that is actually filming videos and showing up- Yes

say, on social media. That's the one thing that I've, um, in the last few weeks had a lot of, um, experience with, working with people that maybe aren't used to being on video, and their reaction is- Yes ... is, is so interesting. As soon as you play the camera... So I, how I, I did, I went in person and filmed the content.

I was standing next to the camera, the camera was here, and I was just having a conversation with them, but they knew the camera was there, so they're like so nervous, right? And then when they didn't think it was recording, they had a really great conversation and, and the stuff they were able to share was really great.

And I find that really interesting, 'cause it was something my partner, who helps with the video editing, is like, it's so interesting to observe how people's personality changes as soon as the camera is turned on, because you know- Mm ... oh my God, more than one person is gonna see this. Yes. And I had this one guy, he's like, "I've been nervous all [00:24:00] week.

I haven't been able to eat." Like, he's like, "I hate you. Why are you making me do this?" And I was like, "It's fine." You know, he, he, he was really like playing it up. It's like, it's fine, like we're just gonna have a conversation. We can edit anything. And it's quite interesting, 'cause when they see the end product of edited, they're like, "Oh, it's actually really good."

But it's something about this, this... And I imagine it's this vulnerability of putting yourself out there that, um, people really struggle with, and it's something that I've been exploring on how I communicate that better to help clients feel seen and supported so they're not like... And I, and I said this to a lot of them, like, you'd really be amazed at how many clients are like this.

You think everyone is so natural in front of the camera. Of course. Even me. I, I didn't start- Of course ... I didn't grow up... I grew up with, um, a video camera and we used to do like TV shows with my friends, but I didn't, didn't show up on social media. And so for me, my first-ever Instagram, I'm like shaking.

You can hear my voice. You know, I'm sort of- Mm-hmm ... but y- at the end of the day, it's, it's putting yourself out there. You're doing the thing. 

Shari: Yeah. 

Mariah: And we saw these young girls in a, [00:25:00] in one of the parks we were at recently, phone out, talking to the camera like it's nothing 'cause they grew up with it, and I think it's understanding that this is not natural for us and, and how can we...

You know, we know the end result and what the intention is, but it's like opening up that vulnerability in that moment to film that video. It's, it's really fascinating. I think there needs to be a study into this. There probably is, into- 

Shari: Oh, absolutely ... 

Mariah: creating videos 

Shari: and, yeah ... you know, when we have a disappointing experience- Our gut is to stay away from it.

But the truth is, the more you do it, even if you think you've failed, you start to realize, "Okay, I didn't die. Tomorrow's another day." And the more you do it, the lower the stakes are, and you start to get to a point where you accept maybe it wasn't perfect, maybe this part will be better next time. You don't need it to be perfect unless you feel like, "This is it.

This is my only chance." And then [00:26:00] that really puts you in a, a vulnerable place. Doesn't have to be that vulnerable, just being who you are, and it's good to make mistakes and realize, "Okay, people can relate to me if I make a m-..." I always share when I make a mistake. 

Mariah: Mm. Yeah, I think, yeah, as you're saying, it makes people go, "Oh, okay.

Well, she's human too. She makes mistakes." Right. "That's normal." And being, you know, ur, being open and honest about it. But I think, yeah, the, the, it, it's interesting with the whole concept of posting on social media, you know. We know it's gone after, you know, five minutes of posting it, and people, you know, and, and I think it is that shock of, "Oh, what if it, what if a millions of people see it and I get judged, and I get all..."

You know, all those stories that play over in our heads all the time, which is something you mentioned before, is the stories that people tell themselves, you know, and how we... And I know in entrepreneurship, like, it's one of the biggest personal growth journeys you can ever go through is starting your own business, 'cause you do open yourself up to being very vulnerable.

And it's quite [00:27:00] interesting, I don't know if it's the same in the States, but in Australia, everyone assumes small business owners are rich, they have flexibility, they have all this money. Um, but they don't understand all the stuff. You know, we work twice as hard, we work longer hours. We, if you look at the hourly rate, we're definitely not rolling in it.

Um, and we are opening ourselves up vulnerably all the time, and then, you know, people can come in and, and make comments everywhere, here, there, and that. I have clients that have been in business 20 years, really successful business, they still get hate comments on their social media, you know, and it's just- 

Shari: Exactly.

Yeah. And whether or not you get hate comments, not everybody's going to like me. 

Mariah: Mm. 

Shari: That doesn't feel good, but it's much better to anticipate that and learn how to accept it. If you like yourself- If you accept yourself despite the things that you struggle with, and realize it's a continuum. Nobody's gonna get to [00:28:00] the point where they're perfectly happy any more than they're gonna get to a place where they're confident all the time in what they're doing.

So you put yourself out there as you are, as you wanna represent your product or your service, and you just know it's not gonna hit positively all over the place. That's the cost of doing business. 

Mariah: Mm. And the cost of, you know, you wanna reach more people. You want more people to see your business, and statistically, it's like if you had a restaurant for 20 years, statistically someone's gonna have a bad meal.

It's just unfortunately we can't get it perfect all the time. Yeah. But, um, one of the things that I've found works really well on social media is sort of what you mentioned, is just acknowledging the mistake or, you know, um, apologizing for how they f- how that made them feel. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then trying to, um...

I say kill with kindness. Um, I, I've had people over the years make comments, and when I, you know, show up authentically like me, 'cause I mean, sometimes I could be savage, but I don't want to be in this public space. [00:29:00] Um, and then people go, "Oh, okay. Yeah, right." And then they sort of move on, you know. They don't have anything else to say.

But, um, if you respond in the, you know, with that sort of hurt and defensiveness, I guess that's when people, it goes down like a- It 

Shari: escalates, right ... 

Mariah: exactly. I mean, 

Shari: I do exactly the same. If somebody's upset about something, I don't worry about my take. 

Mariah: Mm. 

Shari: Especially because of what I'm doing. I'm trying to empower people.

I mean, I work with university students and, and people who are already in a vulnerable, stress-ridden situation. But I will try and empathize with what that other person feels, and I will, I don't wanna say overly apologize, but I will try and imagine more and more what that is like for them, and let them know, "Wow, I can imagine that when I said that- 

Mariah: Mm

Shari: it felt like such and such," [00:30:00] and not defend yourself. Once you defend yourself, you've lost them. So you just have to be... It's, it's like being a good parent, you, to a ch- a very young child. You, you can't give too much love. You just empathize and demonstrate that you feel what they're saying, and that you're sorry for how it was for them.

You don't have to lie. You don't have to say, you know, "I was wrong," if you don't feel that you were wrong. But by the same token, the most important thing is making the other person feel seen and heard without judgment. That's- Mm ... that's all we need in life. 

Mariah: Right. 

Shari: Just accept me as I am, and maybe I can accept myself.

Yeah. We're so hard on ourselves. 

Mariah: Yeah. We're, we're our biggest critic. And, and it's, it's so interesting, like, we would never say, I, I have, you know, my best friend, [00:31:00] I would never be like, "Oh, yeah, you did that wrong," or, "You should've..." We would never say that to the people that we love, but for some reason we say it to ourselves every day.

It's, it's kind of- And- ... fascinating when you reflect on it. 

Shari: It's also really fascinating when you allow yourself to be hyper-aware of your inner dialogue. You will realize, first of all, there are certain ways that we communicate intra-self, um, that is so familiar. It could be a habit where you pick on yours- yourself or something that you say, and you would never kind of know that you say this until you're looking for it.

And then you realize, every time I make a mistake, I say, "Oh, so stupid, so stupid." No, you don't have to say that. You can say, "I made a mistake," or, or whatever is more objectively true. But when we call ourselves names, it's got an impact. 

Mariah: Mm. Yeah. That, that's so true. I, [00:32:00] I think that awareness is, is always the key.

It's just when you're in the moment, it's often hard to be present all the time when you're in high stressful situations. But I've always noticed, like, when I do connect back to the things I tell myself, it's always a good, like, call-out, to be 

Shari: like, "Hang on. Why would you talk to yourself like that?" Yes, so, a- and part of getting rid of perfectionism is to expect yourself to do it right every time.

We don't. No. So you can be disappointed, you can regret having not done something or having done something in a way that you don't really, uh, prefer, but that's different than negating y- your value- 

Mariah: Mm ... 

Shari: which we do all the time. 

Mariah: Yeah, and then we wonder why certain patterns come up in our lives all the time.

Shari: Exactly. And again, look, look at the messages we get. Uh, you know, y- you can go to school and your [00:33:00] teacher tells you to do something this way, this is the right way, and if you do it in a slightly different way, it's wrong. Well, how do we expect people to go from that experience beat into them to trusting themselves?

Mariah: Mm. 

Shari: It's a process of unlearning right and wrong. Yeah. 

Mariah: Yeah, that's a, that's a really good call-out. Well, I'm curious to know, before we wrap up, what's one of the, I guess, the thing that's surprised you around human connection since you've started this work? 

Shari: I think the thing... Well, one thing that has surprised me is how intimate online groups can be.

We used to do these live, um, and it, uh, it, it would go for a few hours. We'd do, um, weekends or, um, week-long processes. But I was blown away, and I realized, because we do require people to have their camera on the [00:34:00] whole time, um, and when people are made to feel respected, their presence is unbelievably immediate.

So people come for the first time, and they love the people that they've spoken with because it's a real connection. So I would say that, and also just how responsive people are to being allowed to be imperfect, to be allowed to... If you're an employer and someone new is making mistakes, just let them know that, uh, it makes sense.

You're just learning. If somebody only makes mistakes and it's two years in, that's another story. Mm. But to really treat people who are just learning, getting up to speed, as though they're the tiny baby, that really leads for them emotionally in new situations. 

Mariah: Mm. [00:35:00] Yeah, it's so fascinating. I, I imagine the conversations you're having weekly are, are so interesting.

Well, how 

Shari: can- I hope you come sometime. 

Mariah: Yeah, I would love to. How can people find you and join your online salons that you do? 

Shari: Absolutely. Uh, go to thenarrativemethod.org. You can sign up for as many as you like. You can also contact us there if you want. Um, if you're a school, uh, if you're an organization or a for-prop- for- for-profit business, um, we create custom programs, um, for everything from high schools, to, um, universities, to businesses, to really serve your particular need.

How can I communicate in a way that is effective and gets across what I'm trying to say without cluttering it with stuff that [00:36:00] m- makes that communication unclear? 

Mariah: Mm. Amazing. Well, thank you so much 

Shari: for- Thank 

Mariah: you ... sharing your wisdom. I really enjoyed having a conversation with you, so thank you. 

Shari: Thanks, Mariah.

Mariah: How cool was that episode and the power of vulnerability? And I think when we are, you know, marketing our business and putting ourselves out there to individuals, something like a creative work practice through the salons that Shari puts together can really be helpful to unlocking, you know, some of the things that you might share with your audience.

If you are a coach, if you are a service-based provider, how can you share things that open up your vulnerability to help others be the same? Especially if you are in those services where people are very vulnerable to you. Even in what I do, people are creating content and, and marketing their business, and a lot of them are personal brands, so a lot of them have to be vulnerable.

If I am also being vulnerable, I think that helps as well. So I thought it was something really cool, really different. I'm keen to hear what you think. And be a content queen or king, and remember that developing your [00:37:00] strategy and story, your vulnerability through stories, it helps develop your business.

Thank you so much for joining me today, and please don't forget to share this with all your business and entrepreneurial friends. You can do this by adding it to your Insta stories and tagging me at contentqueenmoriah or just tell them about it. If you do rate and review on whatever platform you're listening to this on, I have just unlocked the power to see all of the reviews worldwide, 'cause I could only see Australia, and oh my God, we have so many reviews.

So thank you so much for listening and leaving a review. If you haven't, please do. I noticed that on Apple now you can click each country, so across Spotify and Apple, we have, like, 100 and... Oh my God, I have to get the numbers and share next time, but, like, over 100 reviews, which is, like, so cool. I'm so excited for that, so thank you so much for leaving a review and listening to me.

And, um, if you do like this podcast, leave a review, share it with a friend, and follow me on social media. Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, all the things. Have a chat with me. I'd love to hear what you wanna hear on the podcast more, what guests you wanna get on. [00:38:00] I went through all the inbox of guests. I couldn't get through all of them to agree to a podcast because otherwise it'd be in interview land for years, but we have some really interesting topics coming up, so I'm really excited to share those.

And I'll talk to you soon. Bye.

PodcastMariah MacInnesmarketing, marketing advice, how to be authentic online, business ownerComment