331: Your content is working… your website isn’t | Irwin Hau

What if your marketing isn't actually the problem?

What if people are finding you, checking out your content, clicking through to your website... and then leaving?

After analysing close to 70,000 websites, Irwin Hau (our guest on the podcast for ep 331) has come to one conclusion.

Most businesses don't have a traffic problem.

They have a conversion problem.

In this episode, we dive into the role your website plays in your marketing strategy, why getting more traffic won't fix a website that isn't converting, and the four questions every visitor is subconsciously asking when they land on your site. 

We also talk about trust, testimonials, proof, why most websites overcomplicate their messaging, and the simple website mistakes that could be costing you leads without you even realising it.

If you LOVED this episode, make sure you share this on your Instagram stories and tag us @contentqueenmariah.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LEARN THE DETAILS OF A CONTENT STRATEGY WITH MY FREE AUDIO GUIDE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS 👇

✨ The four questions every website visitor wants answered within seconds

✨ Why most businesses don't have a traffic problem — they have a conversion problem

✨ How trust, proof and testimonials influence buying decisions online

✨ The simple website mistakes that could be costing you leads and sales

SHOW RESOURCES 👇

If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @contentqueenmariah⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!

Other than that, enjoy - chat next week 💕

ABOUT THE GUEST 👇

Irwin Hau is a website conversion strategist who helps businesses turn attention into actual revenue. After analyzing over 70,000 websites, he discovered that many businesses do not have a traffic problem, they have a conversion problem. His work focuses on helping brands improve trust, messaging, and website experience so they can generate more leads and sales without needing more content or ad spend.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

This is episode 331, and we're talking about how it's not your content that isn't working, it is actually your website, with Erwin Hau. Welcome to the Content Queen podcast. I'm your host, Mariah. Entrepreneur, storyteller, digital nomad, creator of Content Bootcamp, and founder of Content Queen, with over 10 years experience in marketing.

In this podcast, we dive into what makes an ideal content marketing strategy for your business, blending storytelling and strategy. Hello, gang. I am recording my intro to my podcast and walking to the library, 'cause what a stunning view. Now, we're talking about websites this week, because I talk a lot about social media content and content marketing, which really acts as, like, top and middle, right?

But your website is the bottom of your funnel. And one of the, I guess, pain points of me working with a lot of clients is, you know, we can have all this content going up, but if the website's not converting, well, it makes it really hard. So we [00:01:00] have an expert... And it's getting a bit windy, so let me come back to you.

So our guest today is Erwin Hau, who is a website specialist, and he's analyzed close to 70,000 websites, right? And from his work, he come to the conclusion that people don't have a traffic issue through, you know, their content and their marketing and their ads. They have a conversion issue. So now he works with business owners to help them build trust on their website and make it a place that really explains what they do, so they can convert the people, the traffic, the users into customers.

This is a really great episode, so let's dive in. Great. Erwin, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on today. Um, before we get stuck into talking websites and all the things, um, tell us a little bit more about yourself. Yeah, fantastic. Uh, hi, Mariah. My name's Erwin. Erwin, as in Steve Irwin. Uh, I actually come from a ad agency background.

So I, I was actually thinking about it the other day. It's actually been quite some time. Uh, but it was actually, uh, during [00:02:00] the, just before the GFC. I used to work for two of the top ad agencies, you know, George Patts, uh, and Clemenger BBDO. And so, um, I used to... Uh, it was a moment when I used to think, "Oh, I don't wanna work for the man, I wanna be the man," you know, sort of thing.

And so I started my own agency. Uh, I've been making websites for the last, oh, 17, I think, years. I think my hair started about here when I first started and so that's 17 years lost for you. Uh, but good times. And, uh, and as we've been making websites, we've noticed a few- common problems, I'm gonna call it, and there's one massive problem we just want to solve and, uh, not only did we solve it, we, um, we productized it, turned it into a SaaS, uh, and hence there's a little cow sitting there, uh, right next to me.

And, uh, yeah, happy to share about Conversion Cow and what we're doing to take over the world one website at a time. So, yeah. Yeah. And that's it. Amazing. Yeah, well, y- you know, in your bio, you've, you've [00:03:00] analyzed quite a few websites in your time, I imagine. We have, like, 60,000 websites. You've seen a lot. What, what are the...

So to start your business, like, yeah, what were the common things that you were seeing that were issues? Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, the number should, I think, is actually now closer to 70,000, so. Oh, wow. Man, I really need a life, actually. That's another story. Um, I, I think if you look at, and again, it's really been two decades of digital, looking at websites, and I was even talking to someone about the evolution and when we first...

I remember the first time I heard about responsive design. Ooh, you know, that's really big, and ooh, I've got to make it for a iPhone. What's an iPhone? You know, that sort of thing. I mean, we've evolved quite a bit, but the basics are still the same. Yeah. And here's the key thing that I've realized. Um, there are only four questions people ask when you come to a website.

And in particular maybe for lead generation websites or, like, service-based websites. Maybe we'll, we'll t- do it the, uh- Yeah ... that way, service-based websites. So [00:04:00] like a tradie or a health professional, uh, on a, like a physio website or, or maybe just a, like a, you know, a doctor, lawyer, accountant, that sort of thing.

Four questions: Who are you? Uh, what do you do? Uh, why should I choose you? And how do I get in touch? And if it sounds a little bit familiar, I think it's because you've said the same four things on a date, and it's pretty common sense, you know, sort of thing. And so I don't... Yeah, I think what baffles me, uh, Mariah, and maybe I- I'm gonna ask you a question.

I'm gonna take over the interview for a moment, right? Sure thing. If books have blurbs, so, so a book. Yeah. I don't wanna read the whole thing, I just want a couple of sentences, have blurbs. Um, movies have trailers Websites have, insert word. What do you think? Yeah, like a, a overview. So where's this overview?

Yeah. And I think that's my [00:05:00] problem. No one wants to read a whole... Like, let's be honest, I love websites. I mean, looking at websites, I've lost that much hair for websites. Yeah. But I'd, I'd, I just want the best bits in seconds. Mm. And I think that, that's what we fail to articulate, 'cause not everyone cares about everything you have to say on a web- I just want the blurb.

I just want the trailer. I just want the summary. And so to me, if you are not clear, concise, quick with your proof, and so prominent with your call to actions, you are literally gonna lose someone, assuming that they wanna read everything. And so that's actually what we productized into Conversion Cow, and that's the biggest problem we've seen- Mm

uh, on websites, so yeah. Mm. Mm. That's so interesting. Yeah, and it's so true 'cause I think we overthink so much. We know what we do is amazing. We find we over-explain it. I do find that being female as well, especially working with a lot of women in business, we feel like we have to prove our worth in more [00:06:00] than just one sentence.

Mm. Um, so I often find, yeah, we, we tr- tend to over ex- "Oh, I did this." And I see it with clients with creating content as well. If I ask them for, you know, um, 'You did this thing, tell me a little bit more about it," and they wanna add all the bells and whistles in because they think everyone cares about all the little minute details.

Mm. So, and it, and it's so true, it, it doesn't happen that way because, yeah, we don't read everything. No. We don't see everything. We skim read a lot. We just wanna know, yeah, as you said, those four questions. So I think that's really interesting because even just thinking about my own website, I'm like, "Ooh, how can I make it more simple?"

'Cause we always just immediately think simple is not worthy or not enough for people. We feel like we always have to. Do you find that with clients you work with, they just wanna continue to over-explain what they do 'cause they feel like it's not enough? Yeah. So you see, over-explaining is necessary if someone's asked a question.

Mm. But if I only have seconds... Actually, uh, I find it's the [00:07:00] other way. I find that guy, uh, men on the other hand are too vague, you know, sometimes. Yeah. We just, you know, yeah. Um, and so actually one of my, my- The middle man. Yeah. We, you need somewhere in the middle. Uh, that's, that's where our kids come, you know.

You know, they can, they can help us out, you know? It's a mix of the both. But I, I, I would say this. My wife said it the best to me. I remember I was explaining and ranting on about... I can't even remember what I was talking about, and she looked at me, and she just stopped and said, "Irwin, what are you talking about?

Like, what are, what are you trying to say?" Mm. And I said, "Well, all I'm trying to say is," da, da, da, da, da. And it was just, like, five words, seven words. And then she turned to me and said, "Well, why didn't you just say that? Like, why did you have to give me the, you know, four-hour long Harry Potter seven kind of...

I don't... Like, it's just, just give me the best bits." Yeah. "Just say that." And I think that's the thing. We need to dumb things down, need to make it easy to understand. [00:08:00] Um, treat it as if English is not my first language. How would you say it? That's a, that's an interesting, uh, approach. Yeah. You know, some people have even said that to me, and I've gone, "Oh, actually, well, okay, if English wasn't your first language, maybe I would say it like this."

And I go, "Well, isn't that easy for everyone to understand it?" Because sometimes we get caught up in our technical jargon, uh, sometimes we just like the sound of our own voice, uh, or sometimes we just haven't actually thought through it clearly. That's why we just keep throwing things out. But let's be honest, like you said, you said the key word, skim.

We like to skim read things. We like just... We only remember 10%. Mm. So let's make it brief. Mm. It's like the too long, didn't read. I, I think that should be, I, I think that should be my number plate. Uh, and if you've got it, uh, I'm happy to have a chat with you and let's work something out. But, uh, you, you are right.

Um, too long; did not read is actually not our pro- It's, it's not just a generational problem. Um, it's [00:09:00] just all of us. We are bombarded with messages and attention that we're like, "Okay, okay, what are you trying to say?" Mm. Too long; did not read. Bang. And I think our businesses are like the same. Um... Oh, and here's the other one, actually.

Can I... You just made me think of one. Go for it. We're also too generic. Yeah. Uh, you know? Like, uh, we're professional, I'm effective, you know? We're successful, we're efficient. Like, what does that e- Like, we're the best. You do know all those words are subjective. Mm. Like speed, fast. Like, my fast is different to your fast.

My best is different to your best. Successful is defined differently for me than it is to you. And we keep using these kind of words on websites when I'm like, they're just claims. You just... I c- I could make up anything. I could say I'm awesome and I'm the best, I'm the top. But what proof do you have?

Right. And so I think proof is the other one that we need to add in. Stop making claims. Let's make it real. [00:10:00] That's all we... I mean, there's too much fluff now in the world. Uh, AI just accelerated that, let's be honest. Yes, it did. So let's be more specific, let's be more potent, and let's use less words to get more done.

Mm. And it's interesting, I like what you say about, like, the proof piece as well. Mm. I was just, um... One of my clients had their website done, and, like, I was just reviewing it and giving feedback. And, like, the main thing that missed on the homepage was there was no reviews, no testimonial, no nothing. Like, no partners, like, who we work with.

Um, and I, I think that's something that now because of... So if we think 2020, 2019, 20- bit of 2021, we were so online 'cause we were, had nothing else to do. So we're spending a lot of money and we were- living our best lives, and then we started to get burnt from the people that we spent all our money with, whether it was a coach, whether it was just someone that maybe didn't provide the service.

Didn't happen to everyone, but it did happen. Mm. So, then we started to hold onto our money, and then our BS radar got [00:11:00] bigger, right? So we were like, "Mm, I don't think you so..." 'Cause especially in the coaching world, right? Like, so many coaches come out of the woodwork in 2020 because, "Oh, well, I could start a side hustle 'cause I'm not doing anything else anyway."

Mm. Mm. "And I'm pretty good at this." Mm-hmm. So, and not saying they're not, but then people started to not get the delivery that they thought they were getting. Yeah. And they were paying, like... You know, we had lots of people online going, "You could charge $20,000 for your coaching service." And they're like, "All right."

And then if you have some pretty good- High-ticket sales, that's definitely it ... world and y- words, and you're pretty good at, like, um, you know, showing up on video, they were the people that were selling, right? And then those people that bought got burnt, and now their BS radar is higher. So without proof, without showing me that you actually know what you're doing, I'm not really going to engage in what you have to say.

100%. So, you know, things like case studies on your website, things like testimonials, I think are things that we forget about. And also because we go, "Oh, that means I've gotta ask someone for a review." Yeah, you do. That's part of- Yeah, 100% ... the process of running a business. Yeah. 100%. Well, you've leaned [00:12:00] into something that we've coined as, what I've coined as proof density.

So, let's, let's go through a bit of a, we'll call it the human psychology history lesson on websites and stuff. All right. You see, back in before 2000s, before, you know, everything was going crazy and stuff, when the internet first came out, there was no such thing as pro- You didn't need proof. Because we were all actually, if anything, just intrigued that, wow, my computer can now talk to the world.

And so we just trusted everything. So zero proof, we're just more amazed by the technology. Then you... Then time passed and we were a bit smarter and we realized that people, um, you know, persuasion, manipulation, uh, human psychology, they're all, you know, they're all words that kind of get close and meld together.

So as we started making more websites until, I'd say, you know, uh, 20, uh, 10, 2015, that's when we started going, "Oh, I think we need to [00:13:00] add a little bit more... add something to prove what we're saying is true." Because I can't now sort out between, can't see the wood from the trees on what's real and what's not.

So let's add some proof. We then exponentially just went into this, people can now generate content themselves, people have worked out the sales techniques that work. You know, they've got these high-ticket closers that sometimes the only thing they know how to close is actually themselves and stuff like that.

Have they really done it? Or actually as long as they can rent a Porsche or a Lambo and, and jump in a plane and take a couple of selfies and stuff like that. Mm. And again, not everyone's like that, but unfortunately there's the bad eggs that- Mm ... affect and ruin it for everyone. That then, like you said, our BS radars went up.

We just don't trust anything and so forth. So now it's no longer just show me proof, 'cause there's too much proof. We've worked it out. But to me it's actually proof density in terms of how much proof- Mm ... and the right type of proof. So I would actually say the more polished your videos look sometimes actually [00:14:00] doesn't look as good.

You actually rather whip out the phone and say, "Hi, this is Erwin here. Just wanted to give a shout-out. Mariah, you're awesome. What she did for me on board... " It's actually sometimes slightly better- Mm ... um, than a well-written, you know... I mean, you know back in the day when you used to submit your resume and you got these reference letters written for you.

"Dear sir," you know, or "Madam," you know, "Who it may concern," da, da, da, da. ChatGPT can do that in seconds and make up signatures, letterheads. They don't mean much anymore. And so not is it proof density, it's also that kind of the proof type. Mm. And so we've got to leverage on everything. So we talk about awards, accreditations, associations, case studies.

Like, you know, me using, uh, text, images, videos. Um, if you can do holograms. Whatever it is, we just need proof. Mm. And so... And why? Trust and authority. That's what we're selling. Trust and authority. So I hope you realize, [00:15:00] or anyone who's listening, if you are selling a service or, or, or I'm gonna maybe talk about services 'cause we deal with- Yeah

more with service businesses. You are not selling... Your website isn't here to sell your service. So if I'm a web designer, I'm not here to sell websites. I'm here to sell trust and authority in us in knowing how to make websites. So if I can't view your websites, see your websites, check your websites, talk to your people, all that kind of proof and stuff, plus see work you've done, brands you've done for, you, you know, Google reviews, all that kind of stuff.

If that doesn't sing, then you've just made a claim. Mm. And we don't believe in claims anymore. We want actual facts. 'Cause who, Mariah, would g- go out there and just go, "Yep, I'm gonna sign the invoice," or, "Sign a proposal. Yep, let me just give you big wads of dollars with not knowing what they're gonna receive."

It doesn't work. Mm. And so we want [00:16:00] people to not make the best choice. We want them to make the least risky choice. So it's really pressed into that trust authority side. And how many websites, they... Oh, I've got a website. Everyone's got a website by now. There's no point going, "Hey, do you need a website?"

That's gone. It's more, does your website work? And what does work mean? Trust and authority, and my telephone rings. That is it. Mm. And so when we analyze and audit websites now, we literally just go through with our experience on these. We've got a bit of a framework and a checklist, and you can just go, "Yep, nope, nope."

And how many people fail? Actually, can I tell you the biggest failure that we've seen? And I actually did a LinkedIn post recently, and it shocks me. You, you... I'm, you're literally gonna fall off your chair on this one. We had a client come to us, and they said, "We have a conversion issue." And let's, let's not use these big words.

It's [00:17:00] pretty much my phone's not ringing. Mm-hmm. I'm not getting calls, right? I checked the website. Guess what happened? Everything looked great. The design, the brand was on point, the messaging was good. I could see the contact forms. The proof density was A-okay. And I thought, "I don't get it. Like, everything's ticking my boxes.

I've gotta call 'em." I clicked the ph- the phone number looked right. I said, "What's your phone number?" I click the phone number and guess what? Whoever had developed the site code-wise... And I'm just gonna pretend their phone number's like 1-234-5678, right? They wrote 1-234-5687. Oh my... When I'm calling a number, I don't- That seems like a pretty crazy mistake

right? Yeah. I don't... When I look at a phone number, I don't read it and then I click it. I check it's the same. No, I'm, I, I expect as a user experience that I j- grab a phone, I click the call, and I just put it in my face. Yeah. And [00:18:00] they're wondering why they're not getting phone calls. I know it sounds a bit silly, and let's not have a go at, you know, at, at this person.

Yeah, yeah, of course. I'm not mentioning brand names. But- Yeah ... all I'm saying is Have you ever tried filling in your own form on your website? Have you tried calling your number? Have you ever tried even, uh, loading your website every day to see that your website's not down? How many people haven't even realized when I go, "Uh, your website's down."

They're like, "No, it's not." I say, "I don't see nothing." They're like, "Oh, my gosh. How long has it been down for?" Mm-hmm. These to me are conversion killers at the, obviously, the basic, you know, obvious level. But sometimes common sense isn't so common. And so, um, please check your forms. Please call yourself.

Please check your number. Please even click the, the, the quote button on your website and stuff. Um, things break. Mm. Things happen. Let's not blame your developer, your [00:19:00] desi- uh, your hosting or, or whoever, or your marketing manager or whatever. Things happen, so let's just make sure that we just keep everything in check.

Mm. But, um, no, I think we've seen it all, so. Yeah. We've got some funny stories there. But anyway, just wanted to share that. Yeah. No, it is good because I think- Mm ... a lot of the times we forget to go through our own customer experience as well. Like, we- Yeah ... it makes sense to us, so like, yeah, it'll make sense to everyone else.

But, like, I often find it's easier to look at someone else's website and go, "Oh, that's a bit clunky," or, "That doesn't work." But then for yourself you're kind of like, "Oh, that'll do 'cause, you know, I haven't got much other time to do it." So even going through your own customer experience, and does it make sense?

Because I think... And it's quite... And I think what's telling is the questions that you get from people. Mm. Like, I go, "I thought that was quite clear on my website, but obviously it wasn't." So then you have to go back through and review. Yeah. Like, if someone's asking you the question that you thought you answered on your website, you obviously didn't answer it.

So I think that's always quite telling. Mm. Um, of course, some people maybe just didn't read it, but also, like, it maybe wasn't as obvious or things like that. So I think [00:20:00] that's... It's, it's actually something that we often don't do, and one of the things I think we forget to do as well is go back over it.

Like, say we're finished our website, cool, load, publish, and then we never look at it again. Yeah, 100%. Until, like, we go, "Oh, maybe I need a new..." And what ends up happening is you just add on, add on, add on, add on, add on. Mm. It just starts to become a little bit messy. Mm. So that's a question for you. Like, how often do you recommend, like, auditing your website, going through it- Mm

making changes, adapting it and, and, you know, evolving the website? Yeah. Um, I'm gonna give you an analogy first, which you can actually answer that yourself. You see, if you see your website as a brochure, and that's all it is, then the answer's really, like, how often do you change your brochures? Well, maybe never or hardly ever, right?

Once in a blue moon. But I see it slightly differently. You see, I have a salesperson that works for me. Uh, they're very cost effective, they work [00:21:00] 24/7, they don't take annual leave, they, they are global and they can, they, they, they, uh, pitch to the world all the time. They even get me business when I'm sleeping.

I'm actually just talking about my website. You see, I see my website as my strongest, best salesperson. So if your website's a salesperson, how often would you train, update, debrief, chat, refine, perfect? Well, I don't know about you, but sales to me is the lifeblood of every business. So for me, I would constantly, maybe not daily and stuff like that, but- Mm

like a salesperson, I'll, I'm checking me once a, once a week, once a two weeks, once a month. Depends on what your appetite is and how much you have to change. 'Cause let's be honest, checking in doesn't mean I have to sit there for an hour doing something. Checking could just be, "Yep, nope, that was [00:22:00] fine. Yep, cool.

No worries. Done." Mm. And like a car service, sometimes you have some major services, sometimes you have some minor ones, right? Not every service do you go in, do you have to, you know, "Oh, man, I gotta change the engine out," every time. Could just be like, "Uh, the window's dirty. Oh, that was it. Nope, don't need to do anything."

Yeah. It's as fast as that. Mm. So here's a couple funny tips I would actually give people, and this you can take it as you will for anyone who's listening. I would actually... You know how when you open up your browser, you know, Google comes up or Bing comes up or whatever comes up is your default, right?

Why don't you make your own website, your own business website your default? Why? 'Cause if your website ever went down, you'd actually know daily. Mm. Like, I don't need a marketing manager or an IT person or, or pay someone for... It just, just comes up. Number two. Would you buy from yourself? It's a question I always ask, you know, would you, would you buy from yourself?

Oh, no, not really. Like, like, [00:23:00] 'cause let's be honest, this is your public perception that everyone can see. You've just gone to a networking meeting, you've just done some business. Your, your URL's on your decal of your car sort of thing. Would you buy from yourself and stuff? So I'll just, once in a while, I'll just check and run through the website, have a look, just key pages.

Does it work? It's good enough. You can even get someone in your office to do it, an admin person or, uh, even for yourself if you actually care that much, right? But I would actually say do regular, proper backend technical checks maybe every six, six months to a year. Mm. But more the front end stuff, you know?

Emailing, say, calling someone. I'll just do it once a month. Just again, I'm asking you to spend 30 seconds just to check, uh, is, yeah, things up to date. You know, am I, am I putting my best foot forward? Think of every time your website's been seen by a new customer as if you're going on a, the best first date you've ever gone on, right?

I'm not gonna rock up and just go, "I'm just gonna rock up in whatever T-shirt." No, I'm gonna, gonna get a haircut. I wish I had more hair, but I'm gonna get a [00:24:00] nice haircut. I'm gonna get my outfit done. Okay, I'm looking good. Let's go. Mm. 'Cause that is the attitude we need to have with everyone who comes to our website.

Mm. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. And I find it interesting 'cause from my experience- A lot of times ... as the content side of things and the social media, kind of your shop window, I like to call it, um, I find a lot of people spend a lot of time- 100% ... on their shop window, their, their social media, like, their, their top of funnel content.

And then fail, like, are so embarrassed to send people to their website. And it's quite interesting, isn't it? Because, like, I think websites just feel like a lot more work, but as you're saying, if you're like, you know, updating it and you're sort of in it all the time, it's little jobs as opposed to, like, having to, you know, do your website, spend heaps of time on it, and then just- 100%

leave it, and then come back to it in a year, two years and go, "Oh, this is a big beast." It's like updating it consistently so that you don't feel like it's this big job. Mm. Whereas I think we spend so [00:25:00] much time... And, and obviously to bring new people in, social media is a great tool for that, but we spend so much time perfecting our social media that our websites just get left on the shelf, and that's where, like, I think the, the stat is, you know, upwards of 80% of people make their purchasing decision on a website.

So, like, they're not gonna be... You know, maybe you might get a DM and someone books in a call straightaway from you- Mm ... and you've made a sale, but most of the time people are gonna check out your website, your case studies, your... Do, like, kind of the due diligence of, like, checking out who you are and what you do.

So I don't know, I find it one of those things that we neglect. And as a marketer I send... You know, try and get traffic to these websites. That's my goal, and then if there's no conversion the first people think, people go, "Oh, well, the marketing's not working." But it's actually the website's not working, not the marketing.

The marketing's getting people there, it's just not converting people once they get to- True ... the website because you're not actively working on it. 100%. And I, and I think you hit it on the head. You're the master of the front part, that traffic, how to get people from unknown to known, [00:26:00] and then to suss you out.

But then m- and, and the part I take, actually, is just when you're on someone's website, can I make you pick up your phone and fill in that email form? That is all I care for, and they're the two parts. Mm. Can I get people to you, and can I get the phone to ring? They're two different skillsets. So when people say, "I want a new website because I need a lot of traffic," no, you just said you want a new website.

That's it. Or, "Hey, I'm gonna spend a lot of money on AdWords, SEO, social," whatever the marketing is, it just means that you're just gonna get a lot of people coming to you. But if it's a really embarrassing website, it's no good. And you're right. Um, actually you should see my garden. I have left it for so long that I can't even s- uh, we, we have all this rubbish in our, in our garden, unfortunately, 'cause we're doing some work.

Um, the weeds are so high I can't even see that rubbish anymore. It actually just, it just looks nice and green, right? It's not. I bet you there's rodents in there as well. It's h- it's horrible, right? But you're right. If I don't keep something, [00:27:00] um, and, and trim it all the time, it's gonna be a big job. Mm. And then it kinda falls in the too hard basket, and like my garden, I'm, I'm just too scared now, and if I do do something I've gotta spend some good dollars.

But if I had kept it, like my neighbor's garden- Oh, she's there every day, little snips, little snips. Takes her seconds, but it is always looking immaculate. Trust me, she's gonna get more attention than me. And if we were gonna compare, and if we were two businesses, even I would pick her. Mm. And that's scary.

Uh, so yeah. Yeah. 100%. Mm. And what do you say to people online now that are like, "Ah, you don't need a website anymore." Like, you, you know, with, uh- Yeah, yeah. I love, love it ... social media, et cetera. You know, people say like- Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm a website advocate. I think I'm a very big believer in the fact that you don't own your social media, you don't own- No

um, you know, those channels. So that's why I'm a big [00:28:00] believer of websites. Yeah. But what, yeah, what do you talk... When people say that, like, "Oh, I don't need a website." Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I, I love that answer, 'cause my answer's really straight. Take it down. If you don't need your website, take it down. Just, just, just delete it now.

And no business owner has ever gone, "Whoa, whoa. Okay, let's do that." They go, "No, I can't do that." And so I go, "Why? You just said you don't use it." And I... And, uh, let me tell you all the answers I've collated over time. "I can't take it down because my job ads are up at the moment and they refer to us." "Oh, our, our website address is written all over the place.

It's on our every business card, it's on every email signature I've sent out, it's printed on my, my car decal or my building." "Oh, no, I, I can't take it down because, um, you know, that's how people find us, uh, uh, you know." And, and I'm like, "Well, you've just given me all the reasons why people do use your website, and you say you don't need a website."

But my, my best one is, um, it's still my favorite story, is, [00:29:00] uh, my mate Dave lost a $2 million tender. And I said, "What happened? Uh, I thought you were... You're the, you're the bigger, more established company." He goes, "I was. I am still." But the managing director who received our proposal couldn't choose who to go with.

And so thought to do his own due diligence, so obviously asked around first, as we always do, word of mouth referral. But clearly, you know, this is a big, you know, big tender and stuff and no one knows his brand name, so he just did what everyone would do, just jumped online and had a look at the websites themselves.

And it wasn't because the website was pretty- Mm ... or modern. He literally just... The managing director said, "I just trust this one more 'cause it's just more... Shows more authority, look more confident. I feel, and I think they're more trustworthy and confident. I'm just gonna award it to them." At the end of the day, I found out that both companies were offering the same product, same solution, same price.

But unfortunately for Dave, [00:30:00] that was actually his competitor who was actually smaller, but they just looked more trustworthy. Mm. And I think that's the thing. People check us out more than we realize. Just because they don't call you or talk to you doesn't mean they're not looking at you. Everyone looks at...

So if you went to a networking meeting, you'd get a business card. I want to check you out. If you heard this podcast and you heard, you know, heard we run two businesses, Creatix and Conversion Cow, you might be curious and say, "I just want to check out." You might not engage in our services, that's okay, but you're still curious.

Like, if this- Mm ... guy talks about conversion, I wonder what his website looks like. You know, we're curious beings, and that curiosity makes us look at things. That's all. And so even look at your da- and actually, here's, here's one for you, Marianne. How often do people look at the data? Yes. Do you know how many people are looking at your website?

Do you know which areas they're scrolling to? We're making decisions based on feelings. Experience counts for something, I get it [00:31:00] But if you have data... So in the same breath, a business coach once asked me, "Irwin, do you actually know what your profit loss numbers are? Do you actually know the financials of your business?

Like, do you know how much revenue you're making right now? Do you know what your net profit number is right now?" A lot of people can't answer that question. Mm. As in like, if I like, I don't... Pl- give or, plus or minus $10,000, right? Could you tell me, almost. In the same breath I ask, "Do you know how much traffic goes to your website?

Do you know how many phone calls you actually get? Do you know which marketing channels work? And do you know where people drop off on your website?" And again, if you don't have data for it, you might have some experience or some key learnings, but even someone who's experienced could actually just look at it and just tell you, "Yeah, that's not working, and that is."

Let's make some good decisions based on some sound principles and tried and true, um, methods. So. Mm. Yeah. Big believer in the data. I had a [00:32:00] client, um, couple, well, quite a while ago now, um, really fixated on like Instagram working for her. Like, "Oh, you know, everyone's doing this Instagram thing, I need it to work for me."

She was a leadership coach, so naturally LinkedIn was the channel that she got results, right? She knew that, but there was something about Instagram. She just wanted to like win Instagram, so to speak. Mm. And I said, "Oh, well, um..." She's like, "Oh, I just, I don't know. It's not working." I said, "Well, let's, let's look at the back end of your website, like where's your traffic coming from?"

Mm. So we had a look, and actually LinkedIn was up there, Instagram was not, and YouTube was there. I said, "Well, you know, you've got quite a bit of traffic coming from YouTube. When was the last time you posted a video?" And she's like, "Oh, ages ago, because I just assumed that like it w- you know, took a little bit of time."

Yeah. "I love it. I love my YouTube." Yeah. "But it was just, you know, I wanted to try the Instagram thing." And I said, "Well, you're getting..." And she was getting like leads, so people were downloading her lead magnet- Sure ... and coming into her- Sure, yeah ... email platform. So I was like, [00:33:00] "Well, why don't we just, you... If you love YouTube, create a YouTube.

You could repurpose some of that YouTube video content for Instagram." And this was when Reels just started, so like everyone was- Mm ... reeling. I mean, they still are, but everyone was like loving the video. Um, she's like, "Oh, that feels so much more natural." And then she dropped the expectation that she had of Instagram and really focused on her YouTube, and then actually enjoyed the marketing side of things 'cause she knew it was working for her.

So like I'm the biggest advocate for looking at your data, 'cause I just feel like otherwise you're going a little bit blind. 100%. And you just don't know where the results are coming from. And, and actually it, it just tells you so much more. I've got a client that, you know, every time she, she just, "Oh, this is happening, that's happening," da da da da.

And then she started doing this really in-depth- analytics course. And now she's like get ... And also I think it's like an energy thing, right? When you know more about it, you know what works, you feel more positive, more confident, you naturally show up differently. So in her videos she's more [00:34:00] confident. In the way she's presenting herself is more confident.

Mm, sure. She's getting more results. Like, it's all that sort of like flow on effect, whether you're more like analytical or whether you're more like- 100%, yeah ... emotional and, and energetic. Like, it'll, like the numbers actually help with you showing up in a way that is more confident. Mm. And if the numbers aren't great, like it gives you an insight as to why not.

Like, why am I not getting that many people to my website? Okay, maybe it's how I'm showing up on social media, or how I'm creating content that shows up in AI or in Google. Like, it's all this like ... You know, it all tells you so much. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. 100%. And I feel like we often ignore it because numbers are not sexy.

That's the problem. No, they're not. But, but unfortunately, business is numbers. Yes. Um, in a successful business that, you know, is, uh ... And I think you've just reminded me, I think there's so many basic things that anyone who's listening, and even for ourselves, you know, we, we should do. Number one, get your Google Analytics installed and just know your numbers.

Mm. [00:35:00] Number two, invest in simple, cost-effective tools, um, that actually help you to get data. Um, one thing we built into Conversion Cow, our software, 'cause our software is only like $7. It starts at $7.89 a day. But just because you can tell how many people, you know, open the tab, how many people come to your website, it actually helps you make better plays.

Because sometimes we're like, "Uh, let's just spend more money on marketing." It's like, I had one client, they're like, "Okay, let's get more traffic to our website." I'm like, "Ex..." I, I kind of s- stopped him and I said, "You already have 5,000 plus people per month coming to your website. Hitting it with another 2,000 is not gonna make a difference.

Because, like a leaky bucket- Mm ... that bucket is not ... Y- your website is not converting. You've got some basic issues. You ev- I can't even find your phone number. You're gonna spend so much money on marketing, which can be expensive 'cause it's [00:36:00] ongoing, right? But done effectively. Let's just do the right thing.

So let's get your analytics installed. Let's spend money on simple, cost-effective tools to give us extra data. Heat mapping tools. Where do people go? Mm. Even things like that, right? Let's get our message nice and clear. The moment you come to a website, bang, is it clear? Nice and simple, right? Number four, can people find what they need?

'Cause who is the most important person- in the room when it comes to your business. It's neither you, me, it's not the web agency, it's not the business owner. It's actually your customer. What- Mm. See it from their perspective. So when you look at your messaging on your website, stop talking about yourself.

Clients have a problem, they need a solution. They don't care about your brand, they don't care about your history. It helps, but they care about a solution for their urgent problem, [00:37:00] and that you are the antidote. So let's talk about... And then last one is really just make sure your call to actions are just blatantly clear.

Uh, we've got a method on how we make it, uh, appear on every page, and actually changes accordingly. But I think for anyone listening, at least when you're going through your own website, can it, and can I find ways of getting to what I call the cash register, right? I'm wanting to buy... I was actually at Myer, actually, uh, uh, a department store, looking to buy a dress for my daughter.

We actually found the right dress, and I said to the, the, the sales attendant who was walking past, "I'd love to buy this dress. Where do I buy?" Do you know what she said? "Can you just go to the other corner? Take the lift down." Hmm. "Down the escalator, uh, and the register's somewhere on the left there." I'm kinda like, "Do you want the sale or not?"

Like, I'm kind of... I'm ready to buy. Yeah. I'm holding it. Uh, if I was that sales attendant, I would've actually [00:38:00] grabbed the dress, say, "No worries. Thank you. Why don't you come with me? I'll, I'll get it sorted for you," right? That's the least that person could do. Yeah. But instead it was more like, "No, actually, it's on the next floor and you gotta work out..."

Is it... Don't we do that when we go, "Hey, it's... Oh, I'm ready to buy your service." "Oh, it, it's on the contact page. Just click on the contact over there, and when you get to contact page, just scroll down and you, you'll kinda see a couple options. Just hopefully something helps you there." And I'm like Like, the other person made it easy for me.

Do you think I'm gonna go with them or you? Yeah. And I think that's the problem. We really have to think of it from a customer's perspective. We're, we're lazy, we have a problem, an urgent problem. We like to skim websites just to tie in what we said before. Let's make it so simple, so easy to get that sale and to do something.

So. Mm. Yeah. I love that. Very good action steps [00:39:00] for us. So can you tell us a little bit more about Conversion Cow? I'm curious to know how it works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You mentioned about simple tools. Just tell us, like, you know, give us our, um- Yeah, yeah ... too long, didn't read, um- Yeah, too long. Actually, actually, I'll, I'll tell it to you as a story, actually, because I think we need- We love a story

so we were doing exactly what we were talking about. We were do- we're doing the SEO, the AdWords, the socials, you know, all that stuff. We're driving people to our website. Uh, but we're not getting phone calls, and so we were actually quite frustrated. So we tried, over seven years, 32, uh, tests. We did 32 tests on our website, on client websites, just to see how we could get people to contact us.

And we've now formed this product called Conversion Cow, which is a little simple pop-up that sits on the side of your website. It's non-intrusive, but it gives tailored sales messages depending on how you interact with the website. So when you first come... So, so I'm using a plumber, uh, example. If you come to a plumber's website, the [00:40:00] first thing you might see on the website is, you know, who's this plumber?

Why should I choose them? So you might have a little tab that, uh, talks about that. It's a little, uh, page that kind of comes out. Mm-hmm But if I was to come back to that website, say, at 7:00 PM at night, you do know that I don't wanna know about you. I'm only coming to a plumber website because the user intent is I've got a busted toilet after hours.

And so what our tool does is we can set up so you can say different messages. So in this case, you could actually say, um, "Got a leaky toilet?" Or, "Got a, a toilet emergency?" Question mark. Mm. And when you click it, it actually now gives you tailored call to action. So the four things I talked about, who are you?

What do you do? Why choose you? How to get in touch. We're essentially a summary page for your website, and that summary page changes depending on how you interact with the website. And our software does cost less than a coffee a day, hence we have this, uh, uh, good old mug here that says, uh, "Beef up your website," or-

milk your website for more leads." It's [00:41:00] because our website's- Oh my God, I love it ... uh, tool costs less than a coffee a day and stuff. So yeah, so, so anyone with high traffic, uh, is a service-based client. Mm. So services, allied health services, trade services, um, they do best with our software, and we're here to beef up websites around the world and milk them for more leads, so that's it.

I love that. Love your marketing messaging. Yeah. Very fun. Thank you. That is so great. So thank you so much, Erwin, for sharing, yeah, heaps of value. Um, now you've called me out, I need to add into my... I actually do have a task to review my website every week. Do you know what happens? Review it yourself, and if you don't know what to do, I'm happy to do it for you.

I put it to the next week. Yeah, no, reach out. Anyone who's listening, feel free to reach out, even if it's just a quick five-minute chat going, "Erwin, I heard you on, on the podcast. Give me..." Uh, and, and this is, this is actually how cl- a customer said. You have less than 30 seconds. Yeah. So let me even put out a challenge If you're listening and you want me to have a [00:42:00] look at your website, I'll do the 30-second challenge.

I'll jump on the phone, and I'll re- review it with you- Mm ... to tell you where you break down. Mm. And if you can fix it yourself, go nuts. Do it yourself. Yeah. The, uh, idea is you just need a fresh pair of eyes to see it from a customer's perspective, and let's just get the basics right. And when we get the basics right, everything else just follows.

Mm. Okay, well- And then go nuts with your marketing ... take up Irwin on his offer, um- Yeah ... because yes, I think it's, it is a good reminder to get back into... You know, yes, I, I talk organic marketing. Well, your website is kind of part of that. Um, it's not just social media. It's not just the fun content stuff.

The content that is on your website is going to be the thing that helps people make the decision at the end of the day. So, you know, if we're looking at our numbers and we know we have a conversion problem, uh, Irwin is the person to help you with that. So how, how can people find you and find your phone number to give you a call?

Yeah, for sure. Um, couple ways you can, uh, get in touch. Uh, you can [00:43:00] jump on my LinkedIn, uh, Irwin, uh, Irwin Hau. Irwin as in Steve Irwin, so I-R-W-I-N. Hau as in H-A-U, or "How do you do," I guess is how you pronounce it. Um, you can hit me up on LinkedIn. Uh, Chromatics is my agency, so C-H-R-O-M-A-T-I-X.com.au. We are in Australia, but we do help anyone around the world.

Um, feel free to shoot an email, uh, through that website, hello@chromatics.com.au. And, uh, let- let's do the 30-second challenge. And can I just say, uh, Mariah, I was in front of 200 people, and I made this, the following offer, and no one has claimed this prize yet. But if your website, if you are confident that your website articulates the four basics, who are you, what do you do, why choose you, how to get in touch with you, so succinctly- Hey, hit me up, send it through, and if you tick that box, uh, a- according to our, you know, our standards, and a- again, we're, we're not easy and stuff like that, um, I'll [00:44:00] even send, uh, a little, uh, gift, uh, to you guys for, for actually- Amazing

getting it on the hit. Wow. Could be like a free lunch or something like that. Um- Love that ... no one's actually ever claimed it, so people just get a free lunch- Oh, well I want someone to claim it ... or breakfast or whatever. Come on, let it be us on the podcast. I think people, uh, that goes to show that maybe- Yeah.

they haven't updated their website, right? So, um- Hey, you can update it first and then send it, right? Then send it. I, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna make it easier for you and stuff, but I look forward to seeing a good site and actually using it as an incredible case study, and well done if you do do it, so. Yep, amazing.

Well, thank you so much for, um, giving us all your value. I've loved talking to you, and I'm, yeah, maybe I'll give it a go. I actually do need to get into my website and update it, so you've given me the motivation to do it. Sounds good. Thanks, guys. Thanks, everyone. So, who is going to be brave enough to call Erwin or message him so he can give you a call and audit your website?

He did mine, to be fair, and I have made some changes. So he also let me test his [00:45:00] conversion cal', so I will keep you posted with how that goes. I'm very excited. I've already set it up. The views are viewing. It's happening. So excited to share the conversion on that. But yeah, what I have also done is put a date with yourself once a week, once every two weeks, once a month, to audit your website and give it a little bit of a spruce.

Look at your data, see where people are landing, where they're not landing, what's happening, and just test, tweak, make some edits. Make some test edits. Maybe make your sales pages a bit shorter. Anyway, be a content queen or king, and remember that developing your strategy and story develops your business.

Thank you so much for joining me today with Erwin, and also on my walk to the library. If you love this episode, please share it with all your business and entrepreneurial friends. You can do it by adding it to your Insta stories, tag me @contentqueenmoriah, or tell about it, message me. I've had some beautiful messages about the podcast.

We did reach 30,000 downloads, so that is a vibe. And rate and review. Erwin found me in the charts, reached out and said, "Hey, I think I could add some [00:46:00] value." So the bit, reason we get these amazing guests on is because we're in the charts, so keep rating and reviewing if you haven't done so already. And if there's any topics you want me to talk about in the future, I am here for you.

I've got some ideas now for some messages I've been having, so keep them coming. And if you're listening to this in the live moment, and you got to the end, we are running live boot camp. We only have a few spots left, so if you'd like to join, click the link in bio. I'll talk to you next week. Bye.

PodcastMariah MacInnesmarketing, marketing advice, how to be authentic online, business ownerComment