325: How to actually run meta ads | Neil Shoney
The age old question... should you actually be running Meta ads in your business? And if you are… how do you know if they’re actually working?
In this episode, I’m joined by ad strategist Neil Shoney to unpack what business owners really need to know about Facebook and Instagram ads... without the fluff, overwhelm, or “just boost a post” energy.
Neil shares how Facebook ads quite literally saved his first business, why most people are testing ads completely wrong, and the biggest misconception business owners have when they say “ads don’t work.”
We also dive into the relationship between organic content and paid ads, what’s actually converting right now, and why the problem often isn’t your ads… it’s what happens after people click.
If Meta ads have ever felt confusing, expensive, or like something “other businesses” do… this episode will help you see them in a completely different way.
If you LOVED this episode, make sure you share this on your Instagram stories and tag us @contentqueenmariah and @neilshoneymac.
LEARN THE DETAILS OF A CONTENT STRATEGY WITH MY FREE AUDIO GUIDE
KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS 👇
✨ The relationship between organic content and paid ads (and why they work better together)
✨ The biggest mistakes people make when running ads
✨ What’s actually working in ads right now, from testimonials to high-converting VSL funnels
✨ The framework Neil has used on thousands of business owners to run Meta ads
SHOW RESOURCES 👇
Follow Neil on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/neilshoneymac/
JOIN us in Content Bootcamp (build your content strategy) - https://www.contentqueenmariah.com/content-marketing-bootcamp
Find out more about how to WORK WITH US - www.contentqueenmariah.com
Connect with us on INSTAGRAM - https://www.instagram.com/contentqueenmariah
Follow us on TIKTOK - https://www.tiktok.com/@mariahcontentqueen
If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me @contentqueenmariah!
Other than that, enjoy - chat next week 💕
ABOUT THE GUEST
Neil Shoney is an ads strategist and go-to expert for coaches, consultants, and service providers who want a simple, proven, scalable Facebook Ads system that brings in premium clients consistently.
With 13+ years of running ads and over 3,000 coaches, consultants, and service providers helped, Neil is known for turning complicated advertising into clear, repeatable frameworks that work across every niche of online coaching - because unlike almost everywhere else you turn, Neil does not believe in a one-size-fits-all approach.
After managing high-spend campaigns in the UK and US, Neil shifted into coaching full-time and created a library of 36 proprietary frameworks - including his proprietary “2-5-5 Method” - that helps coaches install a functioning, profitable ads system in days, not months, that they can turn on/off like a tap - whenever they want new leads. His clients span over 62 niches, with 21 of those niches hitting 6-figure months (including fitness coaches, business coaches, fiction writing coaches, and even online dog trainers) through ads.
Neil’s specialty is helping coaches escape manual lead-gen, build warm audiences on demand, and use ads as the engine of their entire business - even if they’ve failed with ads multiple times before. His data-driven simplicity and focus on predictable acquisition has earned him a reputation as one of the most trusted ads mentors in the coaching space.
Based in Windermere, Florida with his wife Adriana, son Luca and cat Isla, Neil blends high-level ads strategy with real-world business building - helping everyday coaches leverage advertising to grow faster, earn more, and build the life they actually want around the people they want.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
This is episode 325, and we're talking about how to actually run meta ads with ad expert Neil Shoney. Welcome to the Content Queen podcast. I'm your host, Mariah, entrepreneur, storyteller, digital nomad, creative content boot camp, and founder of Content Queen, with over 10 years' experience in marketing.
This podcast is here to help you create a content marketing strategy that is perfect and ideal for you and your business only. I do this through blending storytelling and strategy. So let's get into it. Hello, gang. We are not in the bus. If you are watching this and you know my whereabouts, I'm actually at my parents'.
The bus is getting fixed at the moment, but that is not the topic of the podcast. We could talk about bus updates forever and a day. Today, we're talking meta ads and specifically what you as a business owner should be doing, um, if you wanna run ads, how to work out if you should run ads, all the things.
And please give Neil as [00:01:00] much love as possible by following him, connecting with him. He actually re-recorded this for me because I had lost-- I had a corruption on my computer, and I lost a lot of files, and his interview was one of them. So we did re-record it, so please show Neil some extra love and time because he spent a lot of time with me to record this episode.
So let's share all things Neil, and then we can go learn more about meta ads. It's a really, really great episode. Got me thinking a lot as well. So Neil Shoney is an ad specialist, strategist, and go-to expert for coaches, consultants, and service-based providers who want a simple, proven, scalable Facebook ad system that brings in consistent premium clients.
He has over thirteen years' experience running ads and over three thousand coaches, consultants, and service-based providers that he's helped. Neil is known for turning complicated advertising into clear, repeatable frameworks that work across every niche of online coaching because unlike almost everywhere else [00:02:00] you turn, Neil doesn't believe that there's a one-size-fits-all approach, which I can totally agree with and resonate with.
So after managing high-end spend campaigns in the US and UK, Neil shifted to coaching full-time and created a library of thirty-six proprietary frameworks, including his two-five-five method that helps coaches install a functioning profitable ad system in days, not months, that they can turn off and on like a tap whenever they want new leads.
His clients span from 62 niches, with 21 of those niches hitting six-figure months, including fitness coaches, business coaches, fiction writing coaches, that's a cool niche, and even online dog trainers through ads. Neil's specialty is helping coaches escape manual lead gen, build warm audiences on demand, and use ads as an engine for their entire business.
If they're, even if they've failed ads multiple times before, uh, his data-proven simplicity and focus on profitable acquisition has earned his reputation as one of [00:03:00] the most trusted ads mentors in the coaching space. He's based in Florida. He lives with his wife and kids, and
Neil: it was absolute pleasure to welcome Neil onto the show to help us.
So let's chat with Neil.
Mariah: Well, Neil, welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited to have you here, take two. I'm sure in the intro I've explained what happened with this episode, but this one is gonna be better, and I really appreciate, we all appreciate your time. So to kick us off, can you please share a little bit more about, yeah, your story and how you got into the world of ads and marketing and building your own business?
Neil: Yeah, sure. Well, first of all, thanks so much for having me again, uh, on the, on the pod. Um, way, uh, the way, the way that I got into Facebook Ads is probably different from anybody else that does what I do for a living, um, which is with no background in marketing whatsoever. I didn't work in a marketing role.
I didn't study marketing. I actually studied sport and exercise science at university but never went to class and just had a, had a really good time, if I'm [00:04:00] being completely honest. Um, and I ended up getting into to Facebook Ads to literally save my ass, um, in my first business. So I came straight out of university, £2,000, so about 4,000, um, Australian dollars, uh, in a student overdraft in debt, so, like, nothing.
And I just had this, like, big idea. I was always entrepreneurial from a very young age, and I just knew I was gonna run businesses. That's why I took no interest i- in university, 'cause I was like, "I'm not gonna use this anyway."
Mariah: Mm-hmm.
Neil: Um, and I decided to start Scotland's biggest-ever health and fitness exhibition, and by that I don't just mean, like, oh, we, like, rented a space, and we were like, "Hey, we'll put on some fitness events."
I mean, like, the biggest event venue in the entire country, the biggest space that they had available, and I just had this, like, massive idea that, wow, there's nothing like this in Scotland. I didn't really take into account it's got, like, the highest diabetes in the world, um, [00:05:00] a- a- as a country, and that should've been, like, an indication that it wasn't gonna be the smoothest ride comparable to what I thought in my own mind.
So I assumed that build it and they will come, and as soon as people hear about this, they'll absolutely love it, and thousands of tickets will be sold, 'cause we needed to sell, like, I don't know, 3,000 or 4,000 tickets just to, like, break even, um, which was crazy. And about five months in to signing my life away in documents and contracts for the venue, for carpet, 'cause you have to carpet, like, 5,000 square meters.
Um, all the exhibition stands, all the electricals, all the celebrities that were gonna come, all of their flights, all of their hotels, da, da, da, da, da. Um, we'd sold, like, 50 tickets at £12.50, and I was like, "Oh, my goodness." And this is me smashing, um, like, social media, mainly Twitter and Facebook back then, to be honest.
But, uh, Twitter and Facebook, um, [00:06:00] and posting multiple times per day on both platforms. "Hey, let's do different content, uh, that's better for the different platforms." I was literally googling, because people used to list their emails on Google as, like, personal trainers and things. So I used to find email addresses, and I would send, like, 300 cold emails a day to personal trainers.
It was just like... I was- It was, like, complete, like, old-school guerrilla marketing. And then when we were at that point of being, like, five months out from the event and just being like, "I'm gonna be, like, bankrupt at 21, ruin my reputation at 21, and never be able to get, like, anything back here," uh, I just... I remembered that when I was in university and I was running club nights, that I boosted a couple of posts, and we used to fill club nights through it.
And I was like, "I wonder if I could do that now." And then I started to google and what, look at blogs, and saw there was a different way to do it, which was through Ads Manager now. Which, by the way, you used to have to, [00:07:00] like, m- create a document and upload your ads back then. It was, like, a completely different experience from now.
And I put together, really close to The Shauny 255 Method that, that you know about, it was really close to that. And I, I certainly don't think it was me being smart. I think it was just like a, this could go in many directions, and I picked one, and it just happened to be right. Which is- I have the option to choose different audiences.
I have the option to choose different ads here, and let Facebook tell me what works better rather than me just guessing. So I did that, and in the first few days we had sold a whole bunch of tickets. It, it was like 13 tickets or something, but it was at like, it was still like a, like 12 X return on my ad spend.
And I was like, penny dropped. For every pound that I put in, I get 12 back. Now, I don't have a lot of money in the bank, so I can't just like chuck tons at it, but as soon as I make money, I can just chuck it back in. And so for the next five months, it was just [00:08:00] scaling Facebook ads, and that was it. And we ended up opening up the first event with thousands of people coming through the doors.
Um, we sold out all the exhibition stands, which we ended up selling through Facebook ads as well, through an application funnel, to some of the biggest companies in the industry. USN, et cetera, were, were big exhibitors there. Brought loads of, uh, famous people to the event, um, which was great. And then I grew that over four or five years, and then sold it to the biggest events company in Scotland.
And the word of mouth just started to go around that I had done this through Facebook ads, not the traditional means that everybody else in the industry does, which is TV, billboards, radio ads, and all those things. Didn't do any of that. Just ran Facebook ads. And one of my exhibitors, uh, actually got me my first client.
I had no plan of getting into this whatsoever, and somebody called me and said, "Johnny said you're the person to help me launch my gym." And I, and it turned out it was a council gym, so it was [00:09:00] like having to go through the council rather than like it being like some just like ambitious young guy opening up a gym.
And it was like a big, massive facility and I was like, um... I said no to him initially, but then I sort of, I went back on it, and then I ended up going ahead and taking on that client. We did a seven-week campaign for, for their facility, in which it was a building site, and they gave me a cartoon video to work with.
Um, and we spent, um, we spent, was it 4,000 or 7,000? 4,000 or £7,000 on ads. But anyway, uh, we returned £297,866 of gym membership sales in that seven weeks before their doors opened, and it was just like my phone just started ringing with strangers nonstop of people being like, "Um, he said that you should run my ads next," and this.
I just ended up with all these gyms and fitness people, et cetera. And I'm, I don't only work with that now, and I haven't done for the last like 10 years. I've worked with all [00:10:00] coaches, consultants, and service providers, but back then it was just like the word of mouth was just in the fitness space, and everybody was like, "You need to work with Neil."
And then, yeah, it just, it snowballed from there.
Mariah: I love that. It, it's such a good story though, right? Because it is really that kind of like rags to riches with your Facebook ads or with your, with your event. Um, being like, "Oh my God, I feel like it is going to like completely bomb," to being such a successful...
And, and I feel like the beauty of that is like, yeah, I think we forget how much access we have, but we just, I feel like we can be a little bit, not ungrateful, but we forget what's possible. Like back then, obviously social media was so different. And, and even before then, yeah, as you said, people were spending money on radio, TV, so expensive, right?
I worked in marketing, um, in-house marketing, and we were spending so much on [00:11:00] billboards and radio. Of course, they had the budget, but it's like, you know... And, and Facebook ads as well, but like it's just this really cool story of like how we have so much opportunity at our fingertips if we use it properly, and if we- Mm-hmm
trust in that, like in that process as well, right? Because obviously there are so many ways to market our business, and some people really sell Facebook ads in the, "It's gonna save my business." And, and obviously that was sort of your story, and I know we have spoken about how it's, you know, not always the exact reality of how it works.
But it is such a good story of how we have so much opportunity in front of us, and just believing in that and using the elements that we have rather than being like, "Oh, I only got X amount of views on my Instagram post." But it's like imagine, you know, 50 years ago having access to this amount of people from your house, right?
From just like- Yeah ... being on your computer. It's just, I don't know, it always blows my mind. I was talking [00:12:00] about it last week in a workshop. You know, like you say, "Oh, I only reached X amount of people on my content or this or that," but it's like you get access. Or like, "Oh, Facebook ads, I feel like it's getting more and more expensive," and you're spending like, I don't know, $10 a day, some people fi- you know, whatever.
Mm-hmm. But like to do a TV ad, right, how much that would cost.
Neil: Exactly. And, a- and you made a great point there about socials, which I always say to, to my clients as well is like i- if, especially if they're a, like a newer coach and they're getting started with a new account, and they're like, "Yeah, but only like 112 people saw my last post or my last reel."
I was like, "Can you imagine a room with 112 people looking at you from stage?"
Mariah: Exactly. Like,
Neil: like-
Mariah: Exactly ...
Neil: that's, that's an amazing opportunity. So like again, when people are like, "Well, y- you know, I've got some posts that are, and some videos that are doing quite well. I mean, they're not viral. They're like 4,000, 5,000, 6,000 views."
And I'm like, "4,000, 5,000, 6,000 people have taken the time to watch your video. Like, [00:13:00] you know- Yeah ... th- think about it." And for, to, to your other point there, it's that, it's that crazy thing that- We've become a little bit spoiled in, in, like, the social media world of being like, I can get clients through effort and for free, and the client can also come from, like, I could create a post right now after this podcast.
I could take 10, 15 minutes to think it through, to create it, put it into the format that I want it. I could post it within five, 10 minutes on the other side. And hey, in the first five, 10, 15 minutes, probably the most engaged people in my audience are gonna see it first. Mm. So if the call to action's really good, I could literally have a booked call- Mm
and an opportunity to sell in the next 45 minutes from complete blank idea. That's an amazing thing. But because social media is free, people look at Facebook ads as, like, inverted commas, expensive. But at the same time, first of all, like you said, 30, 40, 50 years ago, our way of testing a new product or [00:14:00] a new idea or a new message or a new creative angle was to spend 50K on an advertising campaign.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: And now we can literally put £3 a day behind something and see if it catches fire, and we can always start small before we start to, to spend more on, on the winners. So it's, it's an amazing opportunity. Social media's an amazing opportunity in general.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: Facebook ads and, uh, uh, Instagram ads, even advertising platforms outside of Facebook and Instagram, they're all amazing opportunities for- Mm
for us right now.
Mariah: Yeah. No, it's, it's such a good point, and I think, yeah, we- it's a nice reminder for us all to... And, and also, on that point where you said about w- we expect it for free because we get it for free. Mm-hmm. It's like, you know, when... W- what I love about the whole, like, the relationship between organic and paid social media is you can spend time really [00:15:00] building community and relationships with your organic, and then you can amplify your set.
'Cause there's lots of people that actually don't feel natural creating content all the time that is salesy, right? Like, it's not something that I'm naturally comes to me. I love, like, sharing and giving stuff away, you know, sharing all my wisdom. It's, like, why I have a podcast that's got 324 episodes, right?
Like- ... I love just, like, spending time talking and, and all of that. So for a lot of people that don't naturally feel like showing up all the time and selling on a social media platform, ads gives it a really great way to sort of amplify what you do. And it's almost like, yeah, of course you gotta create the content to put it out there, but at the same time, it's not in your face always like, "Oh, I'm do-" Obviously, if you see your ad all the time.
I stopped seeing my ads, which was nice, like, from my other account. So, you know- Well- ... it was, like, nice not seeing my face all the time.
Neil: Uh, I, I still see my own ads as well. Um, a- and pe- people, every single person that comes on [00:16:00] to, to a call with me is like, "You have, like, been haunting me with ads for, for, like, a year and a half."
So I just felt like now is probably the time. Um- Yeah ... but your, your point of, um, like, the connection between organic a- and ads is one of my favorite things about organic and ads separately but together, which is-
Mariah: Yeah ...
Neil: the better you're, you do a job with social media, the easier the ads become.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: Because, well, you, you know we do two campaigns.
We have a cold campaign and a warm campaign. People who know who you are and people who don't know who you are. For, for the warm campaign, the people that know who you are, there's two really important things there. Number one, that there's people there. So the more effort that you put on socials, you might have 5,000 people to aim at with that campaign, or you might have 50,000 people to aim at with that campaign.
And so given that warm campaigns can be so unbelievably fruitful because these people [00:17:00] already know who you are and now you're placing a targeted offer in front of them, that in itself is like why would you not be creating content on socials? Why would you not be looking for ways to amplify the amount of people that you connect with?
You can create audiences not just on your followers but also the people that viewed your, your videos, even if they're not a follower. The people that visited your profile, even if they're not a follower. So merely creating content and getting engagement is enough for them- Mm ... to recognize your face and your name, and for you to be able to retarget them with ads.
And so on one side, socials is incredible for building that, that audience. And the other thing is the quality of the content that you put out there is gonna determine how well your warm audiences perform from ads. Mm. And so it's one thing to merely be, be seen, but imagine , imagine if you got some, like, negative press, right?
You got some negative press and everybody went to your IG, and then you're retargeting them with ads. You can [00:18:00] imagine that your, your audience might, like, 10X, but your sales certainly wouldn't.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: So obviously that's a bit of an extreme, um, example. But it's that thing of if, if you wanna get better results from your retargeting ads, it's not just get a bigger audience, it's create better content for that audience so that when the ad lands in front of them, they're like, "Thank goodness.
A way of working more closely with this person has finally arrived." Like, that should be the, the feeling, but it's not gonna come through if your social media strategy is, inverted commas, look alive. Like, "Ah, I need to post something today." Mm. Like, there's gotta be strategy behind it, um, which I know that's, like- I'm speaking to the camera there.
Mariah: Yeah, but speaking to everyone that, that sometimes they don't always listen to me, Neil, so it's good to hear it from someone else. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Especially when they're in other space. But no, totally, totally agree. And I think, you know, that, um, that mindset of, "Oh, it's 5:00 PM, I haven't done anything on social media today.
Let's throw [00:19:00] something up. What's out there?" You know? And I think it becomes a bit of an afterthought. And I... And in that same regard, because we have this, like, mindset that, um, you know, social media is, i- depending, like, "Oh, I love it," or, "I hate it," or, "It gives me opportunities," or, "It doesn't." I think sometimes we kind of, like, are always the first to see it in a more of a negative way, because that's just how it's always been delivered.
Like, oh- Mm-hmm ... it's, it sucks all of our time, it's time-consuming, it's this, rather than seeing it as an opportunity to be in front of people. And I have a client that she loves LinkedIn, but she doesn't love Instagram, and, um, she started running ads, and now you can see it changing because she is seeing those outcomes come through in terms of, like, engagement and everything like that.
So now she's on it more, and I think that it's like knowing why you're there as well is so important. Like, if your goal is to eventually run ads, you can't just be like, "All right, I'll just post stuff until I've got the money to run ads." Like, if you spend the time nurturing your community and, [00:20:00] and bringing in new people, then when you run the ads, it's like, as you said, it's just such that natural transition.
It's not like, you know, the ad is so perfectly put together and it's really engaging, and then your content is, like, photos of what you had for breakfast or your coffee. Yeah. You know, something, like, a little bit random. And I think there's, there's also that sort of blend between business owner and content creator.
I, I saw last night a well-known active brand in Australia, like an influencer one, put up a post, and he's like, "Our Instagram... Like, our, um, our business is not doing so well. Um, you know, I'm, I'm hoping someone will see this and critique it." And I looked at their page, and it's literally, like, they're content creators, and they just post stuff about them getting married, and, like, they're an activewear brand, and I...
The first five videos, I don't see any... No, they're not even wearing the activewear. Like, there's not even product placement. Yeah. So I was like, "Mm, I don't think they have a marketing strategy." But, you know, I think a lot of the times is we, we get stuck in that loop of just like, "Oh, I've got to create content, so now I'm a content creator," as opposed to, like, a business owner with a mission and a purpose- Yeah
and [00:21:00] things to share. So you s- you spoke, like we just spoke about that kind of like, um, relationship between organic and paid. Do you find now it is a little bit of a pay to play? Like, if you're a business owner, it is sort of expected that your goal is eventually to use this platform as a paid option? Or are you- Mm-hmm
like, obviously in your role, you want, you want people to see the power of ads. But I don't know if it's just sort of like, oh, it's kind of pay to play now. Like, you're just expected that eventually you will run ads. I think it's like- a given now as business owners. Whereas before, I think with the boom of social media, and reels, and TikTok, we kind of thought, "Oh, I could just grow my business organically."
And, and there was this, like, period of time where it was this hook of like, "I had a $10,000 launch with no ads." It was this, like- Yeah ... kind of like, um, I don't know, like, hero statement. It's like it's a g- Yeah ... a course. Like, it's peop- but, like, they spent time and energy. They didn't spend no money. Like, they definitely spent money- Yeah
to make that money. Yeah. So I'm keen to hear your thoughts around, like, that pay-to-play [00:22:00] concept. Or, like, you know, it's sort of just a given that Facebook ad is... I- if we're on this platform for free, we should have that goal of paying for ads eventually in some degree.
Neil: Yeah. Well, I mean, that, that one of, like, um, a, a 10K launch, and I didn't even use ads is, like, it...
I, I used to still. I haven't seen that, that comment in, like, years now, but I used to get that comment on- Yeah ... on my ads, like, three years ago. And it would be like, "Oh, well, don't need this, 'cause I just did a, like, 15K launch, and I didn't even use ads." And I used to just always ... 'Cause I reply to every comment on ads, because it's amazing for- Yeah
reducing the cost of your ads to do so. Mm-hmm. Um, so I used to always just reply, "Could have been 50." Ad-
Mariah: I,
Neil: I, like, like, well, I, I don't get your point. Like, okay- Yeah ... y- you made 15K from the launch. It could have been 50 if- Yeah ... you know, if it was that good and you simply put it in front of a few people at a small spend that were the right people, then it would have been even [00:23:00] bigger.
But anyway, um, sorry. What was the original question there? Yeah. 'Cause I
Mariah: kind of- So at the moment- ...
Neil: forgot the
Mariah: last point ... the pay-to-play concept, like, uh, is it sort of- Yeah ... I mean, it g- of course it depends on your type of business. Like, there's probably service-based businesses out there that can only take on a certain amount of clients.
Mm. So they're like, "Okay, cool. That's where I'm at." But, like, for people that wanna scale and grow, especially in, like, the coaching space as well, because there's so many of, like, you know, now we've got different offers, different products, et cetera. I think, you know, sort of shifting that mindset of, like, um, yeah, it, it is kind of a given that you will put money towards ads in some degree to amplify your reach.
Neil: Yeah. Well, it, like you say, there, there is, there is caveats to it, and if somebody does have space for, like, eight clients, and eight clients that pay well, and they're happy with that, they've got no want to scale whatsoever, it's very much a lifestyle business, then I totally get it, that if they're, if they've already put energy and effort into growing an audience on [00:24:00] socials and it's relatively well engaged, that being pretty strategic with how to utilize socials could bring that person everything they needed.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: And so, you know, utilizing ads for that person just is not a everybody should use it. It's that the majority of people will probably benefit from it. And it kinda comes down to two things. It's either you're gonna use it to get somewhere faster- So it's like, hey, I could use socials, and I could post, and I could catch fire.
I could go viral. I could... This could happen. And if I do this over the course of the next three years, then it's like, okay. But that three years could be three months, because the amount of people that you reach from your socials in the cour- i- in the space of three years very likely is not gonna cost that much to get in front of that many people with ads over the next three months.
So it's a speed thing on the first, on, on the first point. The second point is about that scale, and it's like, where do you wanna take this thing i- is, is really the big question. Because with, with socials, I mean, I, I [00:25:00] get clients every single month from a relatively small audience, um, on socials, but I get inbound DMs off the back of my content.
We have conversations, book calls, calls, sales. And so outside of ads, I get sales as well. But my business would not be anywhere near the size that it is if I wasn't running ads. The a- the ads fuels about, I don't know, 90, 90 to 95% of, of my sales, um, every single month, and they're the same ads that I run every single month, and they never change.
There's small tweaks here and there, but it's, it's the same ads, same system every single time. Um, so in terms of, like, being a pay-to-play platform, I'm never gonna be the person here for my own agenda to, to sit here and say, "Oh, Facebook Ads is the only way to, to grow a coaching business." Now, I don't believe that.
I don't even believe that there's one way to run Facebook Ads. Uh, but, like, we've got [00:26:00] 37 different ad systems for a reason, so we can cherry-pick the right ones for the right people. So when people are saying, "There's only one way to run Facebook Ads," or, "You don't need Facebook Ads, you only need this," or, "Hey, you don't need content anymore, you just need Facebook Ads," all of it is BS.
Like- Mm-hmm ... everything works, but you just need to kind of, you need to work within, number one, your budgets, num- number two, your goals, and number three, the speed in which you wanna get to, to those things. Um, so yeah. Mm-hmm. Like you said to an earlier point as well, it's like you're gonna pay in something.
Like, you're gonna pay- Mm ... in either time, you're gonna pay in money, you're gonna pay in energy and effort. There's, there's gonna be something that you're gonna have to do to acquire the next chunk of clients, if you will.
Mariah: Yeah. No, I love that, and I think a lot of the times we, we do get inundated with content on social media about where we should be.
You know, like, if I had a dollar for every client I caught up with that said, "So I was talking to one of my business friends, um, and they were saying that they've [00:27:00] gone, like, viral on YouTube. Do you think we should start YouTube?" You know? Or, like-
Neil: Yeah ... "
Mariah: So I got on a call with someone the other day, and they went, 'You should start a podcast.'"
And then I, like, oh, you know, the amount of times, if I knew my calen- like my clients' calendars, I would be able to pinpoint the moment I'd get a message on- ... "Do you reckon we should try this?"
Neil: Yeah ...
Mariah: honestly. And obviously in, you know, and I always come back to the strategy and why we- what we're doing and what we're trying to do, and I never say like, "No, that's a terrible idea."
I always try and, like, see it from the way. Like, yeah, of course, every- as you say, everything's a great idea. It's just also like- Mm-hmm ... yeah, what, what is gonna work for you? What's also gonna work for your audience, et cetera. But it's like, and the time and energy and effort. Starting a podcast takes time, energy, and effort.
It's not just like magic wand and you've got this podcast and it's easy. Like, it- it- it takes an extra load. So it's like, it's just, I find that very interesting and I, and I love that you touch on that because I think we're all really overwhelmed with, like, what, what our options should be, but coming back to, like, [00:28:00] what we wanna do in the timeframe we wanna do it, and what, like, you know, what's our budget, I think is, like, a really good reality check.
So that's a really good, um, reminder for everyone going like, "Oh, there's a gazillion things that I wanna do right now, but what's gonna work best for me?" Um, you mentioned that you have, like, sort of systems that you use for Facebook ads, and when we recorded it last time, you- you went through, I guess, like, kind of your process of putting ads out there.
Um, I'm sure everyone's keen to know, and obviously they can work with you to kind of get what is gonna work for them, but if someone's starting out, what do you recommend they try, test, um, you know, how much money should they look at putting behind ads? I know it's always the number one golden question, like, how much money do I need to make this viable?
Um, I'm- I'm keen to hear, yeah, just your, your sort of process in- in putting ads together from scratch.
Neil: Oh, good. Well, we can make it really practical. Um, I'd just walk through the- the whole system, um, [00:29:00] step by step. It's- it's relatively simple-
Mariah: Mm-hmm ...
Neil: um, i- in nature anyway. So when I said I've got 37 different ad systems, what I really mean there is where you're gonna send them from the ads.
Mariah: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Neil: Our overarching way of running ads is the Shoney 255 method, and it plugs into all 37 different systems. If anybody's confused by what the, you know, the 37 could be, it could be, um, a VSL. It could be direct application ads. It could be running a five-day challenge. It could be running a paid challenge.
It could be running a live masterclass. It could be running ads to a podcast. It could be running ads to a Facebook group. It could be, you know, there's- Mm-hmm ... tons and tons and tons. Um, depending upon your market, what you sell, you as an individual, what you can see yourself doing long-term. If you hate delivering live, you would not do a live masterclass, even if it's right for your market right?
Yeah. So there's a lot of things that come into what are the right systems for you. But once you know what those one or two are [00:30:00] gonna be, at that stage what we do is the Shoney 255 method, and it's really simple. We have two campaigns, so people who know who you are and people who do not know who you are.
And so that's your warm and your cold campaign, okay? We split that out, um, first of all so that- Uh, for, well, we've already doubled our chances of finding a winner because we don't have just one campaign. So we can have one campaign that bombed, one that didn't, in theory, and we've already got our route to finding our winner, right?
So we've already doubled our chances of success versus what most people do. However, um, with the, the warm campaign and the cold campaign, uh, inside them we have five audiences each, okay? And so the reason that we have five audiences in each of them is, again, so that we are not just making assumptions based upon we know best, but instead we're allowing Facebook and Instagram to tell us where the best results are coming from.
And so a lot of people, well, actually everybody that runs Facebook ads just about, uh, runs a one-one-one campaign. Yeah. One [00:31:00] campaign going to one audience, and they have one ad. And in that case you have to hope that every single element of it is right for you to have a 50% chance of it even turning a profit.
Yeah. So you have to hope the ad copy is perfect, the image is perfect, the targeting was perfect, the placements were perfect, even the ad, like, set up at, at step number one was perfect as well. All of those things need to be perfect for you to have a small chance of success. With the showing two by five method, having five audiences in each campaign means that four out of the five, in theory, and we don't want this to happen, we want all 10 to be excellent, but in theory all, uh, nine out of the, the 10 could absolutely bomb, and you would have your winner.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: That you could turn everything else off. You could have the entire budget be focused and driven into the audience that is producing clients one after another, and you've found your winner. [00:32:00] And so even with my level of, uh, like, experience now of running ads for, I don't know, 13, 14 years, something like that, um, and having worked with over 3,000 coaches at this stage in a paid capacity, I would still fail 50% of the time if I was just going with best assumption.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: And it's because there are so many variables in terms of the audiences that are gonna work or not gonna work, and there is variables in terms of will the audience, um, connect better with an image-based ad or a video? Or within a video, would they convert better from a testimonial video or me speaking to my camera walking down the street?
But having all of these in your campaign together allows Facebook to just go and find the winners. They're literally gonna tell you on your dashboard the winners, and you can just quite simply turn off the losers, and it pushes the entire budget- Mm ... towards women, uh, winning formulas. And so the final step there, so we've got two campaigns.
We've got five audiences [00:33:00] in each campaign, and the final step there is to have five ads. And to, to create the variation there, I typically say have two videos and three images or three videos and two images. It kind of comes down to you as an individual. Do you have video testimonials? Some of these questions come into in.
But once you do the maths on that, considering that you only need to find one variation to get to what everybody else is running, but much more successfully, you've got 50 chances to find a winner where everybody else has one chance.
Mariah: Hmm.
Neil: And that's what you're left with. Now, I want all 50 to be winners.
I want the fact that we know what's working in the space in terms of how to choose your audiences for both warm and cold. I, I, because of our experience with what's working with testimonial videos right now, which is a- actually a big change that's worth chatting about if you want to. Um, but testimonial videos and h- how to use them in your ads, and it's working amazingly.
Mariah: Mm-hmm.
Neil: Uh, walk-in talks, building connection [00:34:00] there. Uh, will the images work best? All of these things, um, come into account, but once we've ran this campaign, we can easily see those winners and we can see those losers. Turn off the losers, and we just scale into the winners, and that's it.
Mariah: Hmm. Yeah. No, I love that.
And so I know lots of people, like, I don't know, it can go one of two ways. Some people say, like, "Oh, I have an ad running." I, I literally had a client years ago say, like, "I did an ads course and I've just got this ad that just never turns off, and it's a dollar a day," and it seems to, like, it was bringing her, I don't know, not many leads, right?
But then you have some people that are like, "Oh, you've got to spend," like... I saw this video once where he, like, did the math, and it was like, you know, how you work out how much you need to spend, and it was, like, a lot more than probably some people would be able to afford. So what's kind of like starting out a good budget or a good expectation to have on yourself?
Like, okay, cool, I can't run ads right now, but if I was to in the future, how much would I need? Or I have some money, like, to spend on marketing. Mm-hmm. [00:35:00] What, what should I be aiming for? Like, what's a good amount that's not, like, you know, too low that some people say, "You c- you can run ads on a dollar a day and it can work," or people that say- Yeah
realistically you need to be spending at least $100 plus per day. Mm-hmm. What's a good starting point so we're not, like, completely unrealistic with our expectations, but also not burnt if we're not doing it right- Yeah ... and obviously seeing the results?
Neil: Yeah. So we, we get everybody to start at 10 to 20 pounds per day.
So in, in- Hmm ... your case, Australian dollars, is gonna be, like, 19 to 38, I think it is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, something like that. Yeah. So it's close to double, right? Yeah. Um, so it's not, it's not like 100, 100 bucks per day to- Mm-hmm ... to, um, be able to test accordingly. It's typically the calling card of somebody that doesn't really know what they're doing to tell you that the reason why your ads are not working is 'cause you haven't spent enough.
Because we actually get data back from your Facebook ads extremely quickly and on a low spend. Facebook starts optimizing [00:36:00] long before we even see, uh, you know, the results on the dashboard pull through. So the very first, let's say, 100, 200 people that see your ads, which is probably gonna be the first few pennies of ad spend, they're already getting indications of the type of people that stop scrolling, the type of people that hit the See More button, the type of people that open up the form, the pe- the type of people that submit the form.
What gets people interested, what doesn't get people interested. And over the next two or three days, they're not just gonna find which ads perform good and which ones do not. They're gonna find out in what order. Yeah. So when you see one of my ads, so, like, uh, I don't want, uh, if you wanna get haunted by my ads, simply go to my Instagram once- Yeah, we'll see what you're up to
and you'll never be able to get out, you'll, you'll never get out of this web ever again. Um, so you'll see exactly what I mean by the way the showing 255 method works, which is you would visit my IG, you would get served an ad. But as soon as you see the ad, as long as you stop [00:37:00] scrolling- Yeah ... that's, like, the first ticker.
That's the indication of the person might be interested. If you click through or you, you know, hit the See More button to read more, or you watch the video to 75% of the way through, that'll be the next ticker of, like, level of engagement. You will not see that ad again. You will see my ad number two, then you'll see my ad number three, then you'll see my ad number four.
And that's another reason for the showing 255 method. It's, on one side, it's testing to find winners and losers, but it's also to create ad experiences.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: So that people might see an advert where I'm walking down the street, and I'm giving them a thought provoker and encouraging them to consider ads as the solution to the problem that they have right now in terms of, you know, being stuck at X per month and wanting to go to the next level, da, da, da, da, whatever it may be.
But the next ad that they see from me might be a completely different walk and talk, but it might also just be a testimonial. And it's a testimonial from a client now, and now there's [00:38:00] two things that's happened there. They've connected with me as an individual, or three things. Connected with me as an individual, I've given them a thought provoker, and now they're seeing results of clients and what clients have to say on the other side.
Mm. So now we're creating this, like, ad experience without having to do anything technical. We don't have to tell Facebook and Instagram, "I want you to show this first, and then this second, and this third." They're working out what time of the day- Yeah ... is best to spend their ad budget to get the best results.
So you might go, "Oh, man, it feels like none of my ad budget's been spent today." Facebook and Instagram have probably done the due diligence on your campaign and your audience to know that the majority of conversions happen in the evening. And so these types of things are happening at scale for us, and we get to start at an extremely low ad budget.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: And my, my big one here is, and I th- I think you're already aware, we've now taken, um, coaches in 13 different niches. Way more if you take into account fitness and their sub-niches and things like that, for instance. [00:39:00] But broader spectrum, 13 niches to six-figure months, and that's British pounds. Mm. So that's, like, multi-six figure months, um, in, in Australian dollars.
13 niches there, over 20, uh, well, 21-plus niches if we take into account consultants and service-based businesses as well. And I forget where I was actually going with that point. Where was my train of thought there?
Mariah: I reckon you were going to say something around, like, how it's, it's, like, it doesn't matter about the industry, or it's, like, it kind of
Neil: goes across- Oh, no.
Oh, we were on ad- we were on ad spend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's 5:00, it's 5:44 PM, by the way, on my, on my side. Um- You
Mariah: maxed
Neil: out. So I, I ap- I apologize. Um- It's fine ... but w- even when coaches come to me and they're already at, you know, a decent level- Mm ... in terms of their, their income, I still get them to start at the small ad spend as well.
Mariah: Ah, yes. Yeah.
Neil: And so my, my whole thing is you don't scale ad spend until you've got ROI. You don't scale ad spend because you've got a good cost per lead. You don't romanticize [00:40:00] leads. You don't romanticize engagement. You don't romanticize clicks or link click-through rates or any of the things that you can see on your dashboard.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: You romanticize sales and ROI, and that's it. So you start small, and if you do not have a 5X or a 6X or a 7X ROI on your ads, it's all about optimization until that occurs.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: So your ad spend stays small. Um, and as soon as the ROI is there, and that's fantastic, then it's all about the scaling process.
Mariah: Yeah.
Neil: And you move into that.
Mariah: Yeah. I love that. I think that's... So, I mean, I guess my last question now, and, and I think everyone is really curious, is, like, okay, so what is working? And then from that, like, what do you see, like, what are the mistakes we're making to not get... 'Cause I mean, I know there's people that are running ads.
Maybe they're not getting those results that they are hoping for. I think we immediately blame the ad- But from what I, you've told me in the past, it's not always, it's what [00:41:00] kind of happens after the ad. But I'd be- Mm-hmm ... curious to first dive into, in the time that we have left, what are you seeing working?
I mean, you mentioned, um, testimonials, which, um, sounds interesting. Yeah. And then yeah, what, what mistakes are we making that we need to tighten our, our marketing process to make ads work?
Neil: Yeah. Well, the most common ads that, that people run is boosted posts, and they run boosted posts so that they can bring in followers, and if they're quite proactive, they'll start conversations with those new followers and look to turn those either into direct sales in the DMs or turn them into, to book calls.
Now, I'm not against this. It's one of our 37 different ad systems. We've got a variation called the 3X Reels system. Mm. It's basically the Johnny 255 method rather than just boosting a single video, right? Mm. So that ads work together. It works really well. However, over the last, like, three years, it's just been...
A- and the, like, the amount of calls that I'm on right now, because so many mentorships started teaching that. Like, when their, uh, clients were like, "Can you teach us ads as well?" [00:42:00] It was like, "Well, I can show you how to boost posts." And so everybody was getting taught boosted posts in, like, every single mentorship.
Mm. Uh, which there's nothing wrong with, 'cause it, it is a good, it is a good system. But it has been, like, every three months, it's been, like, a big drop-off in how well it works. Mm. And I think the market is just getting so savvy to, if I follow somebody who's a coach, they're gonna message me. It's gonna be a thought-provoking conversation that then leads to a call, and a call turns into a sale, and that's, like, the cadence.
And I think people are just getting too used to it. Skepticism is at an all-time high. You don't need to be a business coach for it to be a skeptical market. Most people have had a coach in some area in their life, one way, shape, or form, or a consultant or something. Um, and so now everybody's skeptical everywhere.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: And so two things that I'm seeing is that, well, first of all, that system is becoming much tougher. Um, it can still be extremely profitable. We've g- we've got people that, that run it extremely [00:43:00] successfully. But now, where that might have been the main ad system that we run with them, now they've brought in a secondary ad system that's overtaken it.
And the ad systems that are working right now, this is a great thing for everybody in the coaching and consulting space, is that the market is moving to this place where they just want the information fast so they can make a personal decision fast. Mm. They don't wanna go through your, you know, 147-step funnel.
They don't, they don't wanna go through, you know, you know, seven months of know, like, and trust building. They, if they've got a problem and they're in the market, they wanna know if you're the person that can help them. They wanna know the price. They wanna know what it looks like. They wanna know if it fits, fits their needs.
They wanna know, you know, all the details quickly.
Mariah: Mm-hmm.
Neil: And so something that's working amazingly well right now is, and we, we call, we call our variation of this a high-friction VSL funnel.
Mariah: Mm-hmm
Neil: And so for, for your audience, um, VSL funnels are video sales letters, and [00:44:00] the traditional VSL funnel is that you send somebody directly from an ad to a page where there's a video that they watch, and then below the video is an application or a calendar so that they can book in for a call.
And funnily enough, um, you might think, oh, so low friction, so loads of people would book calls. But funnily enough, with that system, especially if the calendar's right there, because skepticism is so high and it's made too easy, the cost per booked call is really high.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: But the majority of people didn't watch the video, therefore, the people on the calendar have no idea what they've booked a call for.
Um, hardly anybody shows up. The people who show up have no idea, any context for you, the products. It's, you know, a completely cold call, and the majority of people don't buy. And so it's a very expensive way to decide that VSL funnels don't work. Mm-hmm. The one change that, that we made was we put an opt-in on the front of the VSL.
And so we quite simply changed it, not to like, "Hey, I've got a free guide or a free [00:45:00] download." It doesn't feel like a freebie. It's- Mm-hmm ... we have a system that's helped X amount of demographic achieve a specific result. Put your details in below to watch a five-minute video to see exactly how it works or to get the exact system, right?
Mariah: Mm-hmm.
Neil: Then they put in their details. That's already the first point of friction. They go to step two. Step two, headline, reminder of what they're about to watch. The five-minute video is below. And the five-minute video should be... It should hit a few markers. Um, but a really big part of, like, the intro is just making sure they, they know that you get them- Mm
as, like, a, a- as individuals. Like, you understand the market really well. You're not just selling a product, but you actually understand them. You know the type of things they've probably tried before. You can make sense of why that isn't working right now, and you can make sense of why there's a better solution.
And then you can bring in what that solution is, what it looks like. You're talking from the point of view of your product. It's pretty direct. Um, and then you invite them to apply. So again, it's not like, "Hey, [00:46:00] um, if you're on this and you watched this video this far, then I'm gonna give you 30 minutes of my time."
It's not a bribe. It's, "Hey, you can apply."
Mariah: Mm-hmm.
Neil: And we get them to answer five or seven questions, and they answer those questions. We do, um, five of the seven if it's seven, um, four of the five if it's five, um, we do as multiple choice. Mm-hmm. And that allows us to make it easy to go through it whilst they still feel that they're being qualified.
So they feel like, you know, if I get to the calendar, then I'm gonna book a call. Um, it wasn't made too easy. Yep. But you also end up, end up in a position where you can disqualify people and not let them get to the calendar.
Mariah: Yeah, okay. Yeah
Neil: So if, if they, if, you know, if it's written, then you, you can't do that.
But if it's multiple choice, then you can. And you can say, for instance, like, we, we tell people never to, to have questions around income or, or investment- Mm ... um, level in these. It's amazing for, like, like, if you've just got a link in your bio and it's, like, an application for your [00:47:00] program, that can actually be quite a, quite a decent question if well-worded.
But in this system, it's so high-friction. If they get onto your calendar, they've spent about 18 to 20 minutes with you in total.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: And so you don't need a question like that. You just need to know that they're in the market right now, they've got a problem, and it's a priority to, to find the solution.
Mm. And if that's the case, then great. So you can ask some questions that allow you to find out if this is high priority for them, if they're- Mm ... looking for a solution right now, or if they're merely looking for some tips or whatever. And those questions can allow you to not let them get to your calendar if it's not gonna be a good use of your time.
But you can also set up your Facebook ads so you optimize only for the people that get to calendar.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: So they're gonna look for more people akin to those people, rather than just merely people who will come through the system. So the great thing with this is it's relatively low-friction. There's no messaging.
There's no tracking leads. Um, the [00:48:00] emails that we have on the other side of it are really thin. Um, it's three or four emails and, um, a couple of SMSs, and we automate the whole system. Mm-hmm. Um, just for instance, if somebody opts in but doesn't do the application- Yeah ... we encourage them to do. So if they do the application but don't book a call, we encourage them to do so.
That's basically it. But this, this is great because it just, it brings through quality without you having to do all the manual busy work that most people have been doing with ads for the last- Mm ... few years as primary strategies. Um, and it's working really well with the market. The market is enjoying this process versus having to jump through hoops and try and work out what your product is and the price point and how to get started and, and everything else.
Mm. Um, but the main thing that I love about this is that I, when I created this for, for my clients, um, like a year, year and a half ago, I, I created it, and in the training, it was just setting this up for warm [00:49:00] audiences. It was like- Mm-hmm ... so here's how you set it up to retarget anybody who's engaged with any of your content, your socials, email list, et cetera.
This is how you get back in front of them with this amazing system to get them onto your calendar, book calls, and make sales. And it was working great. But it was working so great that I was then saying to people, "Just duplicate the campaign, and let's just change your five audiences to cold audiences."
Mm-hmm. "And let's just put a small budget behind it, and let's just see what happens when we run this to cold." And, well, actually, I did this for me first, and it worked really well. So then I started to tell people to do it, um, when I was really confident in theirs, and it just, it just took off. And I was like, this system is so high friction that this works for cold audiences to merely find not just people who are looking for that outcome, but people who are in the market right now.
The sheer fact- Mm ... that they're gonna spend 15, 20 minutes with you across the entire system, um, it [00:50:00] just, it, it just weedles out the people who are not... You know people who are procrastinating on an idea, like, "I would like this to happen. I'd like to grow my business. I would like to lose weight. I'd like to do this.
I'd like to do that." Mm. Versus the people that are like, "Something needs to change right now," and they're the people that come through a system like this. Yeah. And once it's rocking and rolling, it's just scaling.
Mariah: Mm.
Neil: Because it, it's, it's alread- it's already created. You don't need to show up live to anything.
Mm. You don't need to manage your leads. You don't need to message people and follow up with them and send them voice notes. You don't need to do that stuff. This is just automated call booking- Yeah ... but with such high friction that the quality's the thing.
Mariah: Yeah. No, I really like that. I think it's really good for people that have probably even found in the past that maybe clients that they've taken on, especially coaching, um, haven't done the work either.
Like, maybe you... They go, "Okay, I'll do it," and then they don't show up, or they don't put in the energy and effort, and then, like, you wanna get results for people as well. Like, that's the whole point of it. So yeah, [00:51:00] it can be a l- a good, um, how do you say? A system to weed out people that aren't ready or, as you say, they don't c- show up to s- calls, or they don't really know what they're there for.
And then it's, like, a little bit awkward- ... when you show up to a sale call and they don't know that you're gonna sell to them either, right? Yeah. Like, it's a little bit like, "Okay, what are we doing here?"
Neil: Oh, it... When, when you've pitched it- Copy catch-up ... as, like, a really high-value call with no pitch-
Mariah: Yeah
Neil: and then, like, the, the game is to provide value and then at the end transition into a pitch. People hate that, and-
Mariah: Mm ...
Neil: like, and I, and I mean the coaches. Like, pe- people hate it on the other side. We already know that, but coaches hate it as well. Like- Yeah ... they hate having 30 calls in their diary for the next two weeks, but they don't know who's gonna show up.
And the people who show up, they know that they need to do this, like, song and dance of, like, provide value, and then transition it into a call in which they feel a bit awkward 'cause they said there wasn't gonna be a pitch. And it's like it's, it's mucky.
Mariah: Yeah.
Neil: Um- It
Mariah: is, yeah.
Neil: The, the, the system's way better.
Mariah: Yeah. No, I love that. [00:52:00] Um, amazing. The first... The last thing I wanna, um, yeah, just touch on is, uh, I, I've experienced this myself, and I have a, a, um, a pro- task in my list to go through and review everything. But, um, I have an ad running that's been running for ages. As I said to you last time, I need to talk to you.
I will, I will get there, I just have to- ... tighten up some things. But basically, um, I know there's a gap after people see the ad, right? Like, I have them on my email list, and I don't really do too much with them. You mentioned in the first recording that we did how, yeah, you find that the reason why ads don't necessarily work, and obviously this system that you've set up sounds like it kind of eliminates a lot of that.
But people have these pages they send people to or these emails that just don't convert, and then they go, "Oh, well, the ad didn't work," right? The ad was a, a bust. I'm spending money on nothing. And then they turn the ads off instead of actually optimizing the other end.
Neil: Yeah. That's it. Well, it, it's, it's a really big issue, [00:53:00] um, with, like, inverted commas, lead quality, is what people will always say.
So it's like- Mm ... it's not, it's not quality leads. It's, it's definitely not the system that I've built. It's, it's, it's the lead quality. Um, but you can find simple things. Like, if you're running a lead magnet, a simple thing like on the thank you page, having an application for a book call is a really good move, and it gets tons of people- Mm-hmm
onto your calendar. It's not my favorite in comparison to a VSL funnel right now, um, because of that, that quality control overall. But I've got a, a lead magnet, um, in which I don't even run right now, uh, because VSL's just completely taken over for, for me as well. But my intro offer lead magnet, I ran that for about four years straight, and the, the people that, that book calls immediately after opt-in, and this is after them answering, like, seven or eight questions and then get into the calendar, was somewhere between, um, 23 and 26%- Mm-hmm
fro- [00:54:00] fro- from the ads directly. So not from organic, not from, like, warm, you know, warm means. I'm talking about complete strangers coming through, opting into a free Facebook ads course, for instance, or a free Facebook ad, a template bundle, or something akin to that. And on the next page, literally just saying, "The thing you just requested," so instead of giving it to them, you say, "The thing you just requested will be in your emails in the next 10 minutes."
So now you have, like, their attention because they're not expecting it. And if you've set it up in the system right, then they actually shouldn't get it for 10 minutes, and that gives you your time to not have a notification come down on their phone that takes them away from the page, right? So that thing you just requested, it's gonna be in your emails in the next 10 minutes.
In the meantime, if running Facebook ads is important for you and your business or if you're really looking to scale with Facebook ads right now, then answer seven questions below- Uh, and book a 30-minute, uh, ad strategy building session directly with myself so we can map out [00:55:00] a plan of action for you.
Something akin to that. You'd have your seven questions there. You can still do qualification, and then they get to calendar on the other side. Um, again, this is another one where I've tested it with calendar at that step, and people don't book if the calendar's there and it's made too easy. You get them to answer eight questions, and people start booking calls like crazy with qualification.
Mm-hmm. Um, so sometimes you can say the lead magnet doesn't work, the ads are bringing in the wrong people. But sometimes it's like we'll put that one step into the system, and you might just start filling up your calendar like crazy. Mm-hmm. So very often it's not the ads that are the problem, it's what's happening afterwards.
Um, but you can see that pretty quickly in, in the ads data anyway. Like, if you're just on the ads dashboard and you're looking at your ads, whether you're using a Facebook lead form or you're sending people to a landing page, um, the, the goal of the ad is to stop somebody scrolling, get them interested, and get them to click the button, [00:56:00] regardless of if you're using a Facebook form or a website.
And link click-through rate, which is something you can add to your dashboard, so just go into custom columns and just add it to your dashboard. Mm-hmm. If that's above 1% on your campaigns, the ads are pretty much doing their job. So that means that over 1% of people who see your ad, which by the way is a high percentage, so over 1% of people who see your ad are not just engaging with it, but they're clicking the actual button to open up- Mm
the Facebook form or to visit your website. That, that's really good. 'Cause it doesn't cost a lot to get in front of people, so that's a really good, good, um, percentage. Um, some people will have 2%, 3%, 4%, but a, one above 1% is already good. Um, if that's happening, it's not a catch-all that this is 100% of the time, but, like, 98% of the time, that means that you don't need to fix the ads.
That means that something after they make [00:57:00] that click, if your ads aren't working by the way, um- Mm ... then something after that click is what's broken. And it may be that you need to change the opt-in page. It may be that if you're getting tons of opt-ins but you're not getting people to book call, you need to change the questions you're asking on the form.
You just need to identify the weakest spot in the entire system, not just the ads, and be like, "Ah, I don't have calls and I don't have sales. So change the ads." And it's like the ads might be doing their job. You might have to change something else further down the line- Yeah ... and optimize that.
Mariah: And that's the beauty of data, right?
It can tell you what to fix. Yeah. Like, if you've, if you've got the people clicking through, the people opting in, it's the last step, and that's what makes... Like, you're not just going, "Oh, I don't know. I'll just fix everything." And then you make those 1% changes. And as we know, it's always the 1% changes that makes- difference.
Like, you know, even you, um, when you were setting up the, your, um, first ever business, it was just a 1% change that you made, which was, like, just flipping from [00:58:00] organic to paid marketing that changed things for you. So it's, like, it's always those one percenters that make such a difference. But thank you- Yeah
so much for sharing your knowledge, um, again. Maybe one day I'll, I'll recover the, the podcast and we can just have both. Um, how can people find you and learn more about the work that you do with business owners on Facebook ads?
Neil: All good. Well, one of the best places you can go, because then you'll find everything else gets hit, hit with you with ads anyway-
is just go onto my Instagram. So if you go to Neil Shoney Ads, which looks like Neil's Honey Ads. Honey. Um, yeah. Um, unfortunately. I actually tried to get that IG handle back in the day, but there's literally a guy that sells, uh, honey. He's got bees, a guy called Neil. Um, and he's not even using the page.
He's got, like, sev- it's, like, a private profile with, like, 13 followers. But it's literally him. You can go and- So annoying ... look at it. I haven't looked at it in a while, but I assume that he [00:59:00] hasn't, like, picked it up and started using it. I sent him a DM, but he never replied. Uh, but it's literally a guy with, like, a beekeeper hat on, and it's like, it's amazing.
Um, but anyway. He's selling
Mariah: honey to his friends. It,
Neil: it, it's so good. Um, but Neil's Honey Ads or Neil Shoney Ads, however you wanna look at it. Um, you can just search for me on IG, find me there. Um, if you wanna literally see how the VSL funnel works, it's in my link in bio. So you can literally go through the system and see how it works, even if...
But don't, don't book a call and then not show up to it. Yeah,
Mariah: yeah. But go- Don't, don't
Neil: do all of
Mariah: the
Neil: wrong things ... go, go, go through the system, and don't book the call just so that you can steal it. Um, but, but yeah, no, that, that's probably the best place to go to, um, uh, to take a look. I, I've, I've got a YouTube channel as well where I share- Yep
like, in the dashboard training. So again, just search Neil Shoney, um, and you're, you're gonna find that as well.
Mariah: Amazing. Al- also, there are people interested, so please book a call and work with Neil- ... because he knows a lot. So if you are [01:00:00] interested- Mm-hmm ... do book the call, right? Um, but thank you so much for spending time with me.
Again, I really appreciate your time. And yeah, thanks for teaching me so much, as well as everyone else listening, because I think it's always one of those, um, misconceptions around Facebook ads. And I love how you teach it, because it's not this, like, really, um, you know, you have to do it this way, or you have to do it that way, and it's very, um, you know, often we think marketing, Facebook ads, icky, like, salesy, and you are the complete opposite to that, which is a breath of fresh air.
So thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us.
Neil: I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me.
Mariah: All right. Do we feel more confident about running ads? I know I do. I feel like Neil gave us a lot of confidence and a lot of things to reflect on. So if you're currently running ads, maybe you might want to reflect on some of the things that he spoke about.
If you've never run ads before, does it feel a little less overwhelming? 'Cause I know for sure it would for me. You can check out Neil. As I said, give him extra love for him [01:01:00] taking the time to record this twice. But, you know, as they say, it always is better the second time around. But be a content queen or king, and remember that developing your strategy and story develops your business.
Thank you so much for joining me today, and please don't forget to share this with all your business and entrepreneurial friends. And if you do have a minute to leave a rate and review, it does help me get more amazing guests on like Neil. And I know some people are definitely rating and reviewing, 'cause I am inundated with podcast requests for people to come on the show.
So keep it coming. Share it on Insta Stories and tag me at thecontentqueenmoriah. Again, just share it with them. Share the love. Share the love with Neil for spending time with us. And yeah, follow me on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn. If you have any topics you want me to talk about in the future, any guests you want me to come up to get on the show, let me know, and I'll talk to you soon.
Bye.