321: Is your unconscious mind impacting your marketing? | Sam Sundius

Do you ever feel like you know what to do with your marketing… but you’re just not doing it? Same.

This episode, I’ve got Sam Sundius on the Content Queen Podcast to unpack what’s actually going on… and spoiler alert, it’s not your strategy.

We’re talking about the unconscious mind, nervous system, and why hitting “post” can feel like actual danger (even though it’s just… Instagram).

If you’ve ever frozen on camera, avoided showing up, or overthought your content to the point of doing nothing… this one will hit.

If you LOVED this episode, make sure you share this on your Instagram stories and tag us @contentqueenmariah and @art.of.undiscipline.

⁠⁠LEARN THE DETAILS OF A CONTENT STRATEGY WITH MY FREE AUDIO GUIDE⁠⁠⁠⁠

KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS 👇

✨ Why your unconscious mind might be blocking your marketing (even when you know what to do)

✨ Why showing up online can feel unsafe, and how that impacts your content

✨ The difference between pushing through fear vs. creating safety in your body

✨ How curiosity (not pressure) helps you move through resistance and take action

SHOW RESOURCES 👇

If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @contentqueenmariah⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!

Other than that, enjoy - chat next week 💕

ABOUT THE GUEST 

Sam Sundius is a visual artist and creativity doula. In their coaching practice, Art of Undiscipline, Sam collaborates with neurodivergent artists and freelancers to build radically sustainable and impactful creative practices. Sam lives in NYC and teaches Food & Art at NYU.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

This is episode 321, and we're asking the question, is your unconscious mind impacting your marketing? And I have the incredibly smart, intelligent Sam ERs to tell us all about it. Welcome to the Content Queen Podcast. I'm your host, Mariah, entrepreneur storyteller, digital nomad, creative content bootcamp, and founder of Content Queen with over 10 years of experience.

In marketing, this podcast is here to help you create the ideal marketing plan for you based on storytelling and strategy. So let's get into it. Hello gang. If you're watching, you may notice I have these big eyelashes on, I got my wedding makeup trial yesterday and, you know, we've gotta, gotta make the, the makeup worth it.

So I took all the makeup off and I cut the lashes because I thought, well, on the Sunday I'm gonna have something. The day after my wedding can I get the makeup to like, at least the lashes to hold. So, seems to be working so far and I'm getting my, make my hair done today. So at least it'll have that anyway, if you're not.

Watching this on Spotify, like what is she talking about? Um, that is what I'm [00:01:00] talking about. But that is not the point. 'cause we're here to talk about you and your unconscious mind. So you might have remembered I put out into the ether on a podcasting group. Um. Is it consistency that we need to focus on with our marketing or is it the belief in it?

And I think the answer is yes to both, but I had some amazing people contact me. One of them was Sam and they shared the concept of yet neuroplasticity and, and really diving into like, do we need to focus on. Why we don't wanna go in front of the camera or actually just focusing on trying to work out how to get in front of the camera.

Great questions. So let's introduce Sam and then get into the episode because it is a good one and there's. Some really good, huh, moments for us to really challenge and question our our thought process. So, Sam Sundas is a visual artist and creativity doula in their coaching practice. Art of Discipline.

Sam collaborates with neurodivergent artists and freelancers to build radically sustainable and impactful [00:02:00] creative practices. Sam lives in New York City, great city. We used to wanna live there. Now, I don't know 

Sam: if I will get there anytime soon, but it is a beautiful city teach, and they teach food and art at NYU.

So let's chat with Sam. 

Mariah: Okay. Sam, welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited. We just had a, a little chat, so I'm very excited for our conversation today. To kick things off, I really like, uh, people that joined the podcast to share their story. Like how did you get to where you are now, um, as someone who's coaching you on.

Unconscious mind neuroplasticity. I'm like, I'm so excited to hear your journey, like how did you get to this? 

Sam: Thank you so much for having me. Um, yeah, I also, our pre-show chat has me super jazzed for this conversation. Um, so I am a visual artist and a life-changing coach for artists and freelancers. Um, I took a break from my, uh, creative practice, like an unintentional break, like what happens to us for a super long time, and I came back to it a couple years ago.

[00:03:00] And, uh, to do that I experienced like, like really powerful one-on-one coaching and I decided that like, this is what I wanna bring to other people. The way I came specifically to like neuroplasticity and coaching the unconscious mind is, um, like a kind of un thrilling story of I was just looking for the thing that worked the most and this is just like.

It's, they're the most powerful tools. They're like, they have the biggest impact. I guess actually to put a little more context on it, my coaching practice, I call Art of Undisciplined or I was using these tools because, uh, I've long been a believer that when people like use only willpower and self, self-discipline to show up, were actually like draining our cognitive energy in a really big way.

And, um, and less cognitive energy means less creative juices. So like, we're tiring ourselves out, we're burning ourselves out, just trying to show up, and [00:04:00] then we're not satisfied with the work we're making after that. So the goal of my coaching practice has always been to figure out how to like, create a pull into someone's practice.

Like make it so that like you're not pushing yourself anymore because that doesn't fucking work. Um, and instead like finding other ways of like. Absolutely. Making you like, making sure that you are showing up. 

Mariah: Mm. 

Sam: It's a cha It's a challenge, but it's, yeah, it's a sexy one and when people do it, it's like, it's, it's really, it's really sustainable.

It really opens up so many doors. 

Mariah: Yeah, I love what you say about discipline 'cause it's so true and especially like everyone has their own way of learning and, and growing and evolving and you know, what we read in self-help and um, personal development books is, you know, around that sort of discipline and, um, you end up burning out a lot of the times trying to keep up with like all the things that people tell you to do to grow a successful business or to show up all the time.

[00:05:00] And not all of us are wired that way. And I think that's very cool because. Think like anything. And that's what makes a a, a coach that is really good at what they do is really around like meeting that person where they're at. And that's why I love what you do because it's not this like, oh, I've got this framework and this formula and follow this framework and formula and you will be what I like.

I me and you'll do what I do. And I, I have a, um, a client that's the same like she coaches in a way that it's like, it's not about. Following a framework or a formula, it's about actually meeting that person where they're at. So I love that you say that. 'cause I feel like all the times, sometimes we feel like we might be broken 'cause we don't.

What worked for someone that's a successful entrepreneur doesn't work for us. And I think that can be very tiring. Totally. Yeah. 

Sam: Totally. Totally. And I think a lot of these things, like without getting into like a whole conversation about like. Like systemic oppression and stuff like that. But like a lot of these things are birthed from gatekeeping, right?

And there's like something really toxic about constantly insisting that people [00:06:00] come back to willpower and self-discipline. That's like, because it's a very unilateral, like if it's not working for you, it's, that's because you're not doing it enough yet. Like, if you could commit more, it would work for you.

And like. Where does it end? Like seriously. 

Mariah: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a great point. I think, yeah, we always, we always think it's us, not the actual, like the system that's not working for us. And I think, 

Sam: yeah. 

Mariah: Yeah, that, that's very interesting. God, that's a whole topic in itself, right? I, we've opened a can of worms.

Um, I love, so. When we were chatting about this episode and I was sort of stalking your social media, you did a unconscious money blocks workshop and I think, um, that really intrigued my interest because I know obviously we all have money blocks in some way, shape or form that have come up and still come up, especially when potentially we lose clients.

We don't make the sales we want and, and all of that. But it got me thinking about, um. Obviously we have these blocks and of course we have them with [00:07:00] showing up and marketing ourselves. And I, I see it all the time and I, you know, mentioned to you just before the call, so I'll use it as an example, hypothetically, or I see clients all the time that I've been working with over the years, like I've been doing this for.

Well in marketing for 10 years, but I've been working in my own business for six now, so, you know, and as social media has evolved, right, we need to show up more on video, show our face more like go on to kind of the days where we put a logo up and you know, post our graphics from Canva and our stock images.

Now it's like, oh, we really have to show up. And actually, I'm gonna use an example that I had. I shared one with you, but I'm gonna use another one. Yesterday I was, I was recording videos for one of my clients and they have staff, so they've got like a whole. Sweep of people. 'cause it is a restaurant.

They're in the hospitality and tourism business. And we wanna get some videos of the team members acting natural in the kitchen cooking. And as soon as you turn that camera on, no one acts natural, right? [00:08:00] Like no one acts natural at all. And like you say, Hey, would you like to be on a video? And that, no, no, no, no.

I don't wanna be on a video. Obviously I understand from privacy reasons, totally get it. But a lot of them, it wasn't about that. It was like, I don't know what to say. What if I look stupid? Like none of them was like, oh no, it's a privacy thing. I don't do social media. Not one of them said that. 'cause they all comment on the videos.

They all love what we are doing. They all go, oh, are you doing social media? And then they're like. You wanna be a video? Oh no. You know, they get nervous. They don't know what to say and we have to coach them on what to say, you know? Even the owner was like, oh, I don't wanna do this. And then like, we made her, and then when they see it come to life online, they like love it.

Right. And then I was telling you about clients that I've worked with, with Yeah. As soon as you turn the camera on, they're like a different person. They, they change. Like my partner gets sweaty as soon as the camera turns on. Like he literally like breaks out and sweat. That's why he re, he edits, he doesn't record.

Because even I've done podcasts with him before and it's like English isn't his first language, which is a massive confidence thing for him. But it's like he just like forgets all the English he knows like. [00:09:00] Every ounce of English is gone. Um, but yeah, I was talking to you about that, that sort of like nerves and things that come up when we know we have to show up.

So I'd love to talk about that with you. These kind of like unconscious marketing blocks I'm gonna call it. But obviously it's like so much deeper than marketing. But I'm keen to explore this topic with you today around like, yeah, why, why do we get like this? Why is as soon as like we turn a camera on, or as soon as we have to like go live on Instagram or PO even PO hit post.

Yeah. It's like we like go. See pixels on a 

Sam: screen. 

Mariah: Yeah. And it feels like death. Yeah. It's wild. Yeah. It's so crazy. Right? 

Sam: Yeah. So, um, so I love all of this. I'm gonna take like a half a step back, um, just to like contextualize a little bit more. So like, it's cliche, but our unconscious mind, it's, you have to picture like the iceberg, right?

And like the conscious mind is that little bit sticking out there and the unconscious mind is this huge mass underneath. And that's just like the way that it is. Right? [00:10:00] Um, so like when we're playing with our unconscious mind, we wanna be careful about like, like just definitely not vilifying it. It's really about partnering with it, right?

Because the reason the unconscious mind exists and there's not like a serious barrier. There's like, it's a lot more fluid than what we think, but like. Essentially what the unconscious mind is, is it's all of these learned behaviors and chemical reactions that, um, are kind of on autopilot to a degree because, uh, our brains are.

Phenomenally good at filtering out information. Like if we were in touch with all of the information we're taking in and like all of the memories we're having and all the things we're responding to all the time, it would just, like, we would just sit there drooling. I don't even know. It would just be impossible to get anything done.

Um, so the unconscious mind is this like really it's, it's, it's amazing. It's a part of us. It's like it's in literally everything that we do. Um. [00:11:00] And, um, what happens is when it, when our unconscious mind has like, decided that a certain activity, like being visible or doing marketing or hitting posts on Instagram or something, um, is like, feels unsafe, it will start to like, it'll start to kind of activate our nervous system.

And when that happens, change becomes less possible. Right? Once our, our nervous system fight, flight, freeze, fawn becomes activated, um, it really only cares about survival again, amazing tool of evolution. Like when, like our, our bodies are like, and our brains are like so fucking ready to like, preserve us no matter what.

So like, what, what? You what you like. Typically people will do. Um, and this is kind of the idea behind exposure therapy, which. Absolutely not vouching for exposure therapy, but like, it's like when you [00:12:00] practice that thing that you were afraid of, then it's like then you can teach your unconscious mind that it's a safe thing to do.

Right. And that again requires like a fair amount of like willpower and um, and like discipline to like show up even when you feel like it's death and get yourself to do it anyway. And it kind of has like varying amounts of success, which is why definitely. Like, don't encourage exposure therapy. So what neuroplasticity, unconscious, and coaching the unconscious mind are able to do, um, is that you like either working with a practitioner or like, I, I teach people tools to use for themselves.

Like when these moments happen, instead of trying to get your mind to overcome and do the thing anyway, even when your body is in panic, you teach your body that the thing is safe. 

Mariah: Hmm. 

Sam: Then it allows you to move forward with it. And when you feel safe enough to continue doing the thing, then you're [00:13:00] like, you're then, then your unconscious mind is starting to register that like, oh, this is a safe activity.

And so change is like so much faster. So it, it definitely, like I've worked, uh, 'cause I work with, I work with artists. A lot of what we talk about is visibility. Um, uh, and with freelancers and we talk about like networking or like, you know, when people need to connect to collaborate with someone on, on, on a project or something.

Like, it's like a lot of it is like figuring out how to create safety around that so that those things are not holding us back. There was another thought in my head and it went right out. Just boom. 

Mariah: It'll come. It'll come back. For sure. 

Sam: It probably will. 

Mariah: Yeah. It, it's, it's so interesting 'cause I like what you say about like teaching your.

Unconscious mind that it is safe, because I think, um, and what, what do you find usually are, like, does it come down to, you know, past, um, things that have happened in the past that kind of bring, like [00:14:00] leak into, I guess, um, into the marketing? Because obviously like, yeah, you think about like, oh my God, like, seems so crazy to have this.

Reaction to posting something on a platform that, you know, could give me exposure or, um, you know, it's just a camera, like, it's just literally a lens that I can delete it or, you know, it doesn't have to go anywhere. Like, I think, you know, when you actually think about it, you go, wow, it just doesn't make sense.

But, um, and it, it's actually funny. I'm gonna, I'm gonna share a bit of an insight. I, on the, uh, on Friday, I, I was doing some user generated content. I got a user generated content, um, job and. I was stressed about it for some reason, and I, I don't know why. I still don't really know why. Probably in the end I do, 'cause some stuff happened.

But anyway, that's another story. Um, and I was being really, like, my partner was, he's like, why are you, what's wrong? Like, and when the, when we start, like, I was really nervous about it and like, I, um. You know, when we turned the camera [00:15:00] on, I like, he's like, why are you acting like so, like advertisement? Like, and I'm like, I don't know.

It's meant to be natural. I know. And I just like, couldn't, couldn't be natural. I couldn't, like, I really struggled in the end, he got me to like, go outta the room and like walk in as if I've just picked up. Product and like put it down. And then I, it was fine in the end and he said, told me the videos have come out really good, but it was like, I, I, I'm not usually like this in front of the camera.

Like it, it does come quite natural to me, of course with practice. But, um. Yeah, it was sort of interesting to have that like, and like really stressed, like I was ready to fight him. Like, I don't know, I was just so aggressive. And he is like, you know, you okay, like you, you really stressed about this. And I thought that was quite interesting.

And I probably need to unpack like, okay, why? What was I stressed about? We were like in a different environment to what I'm used to as well. So like there was a few like factors. Um, we had a certain timeframe because my, um, family had gone out. We were on holidays, they'd gone out for a couple hours. I'm sure there's all these things, but I'm sure there's something like.[00:16:00] 

In the unconscious mind around like, oh my God, I'm getting paid for this. What if I don't do it how they want and they don't think it's worth the money? Like all these things that come up, I imagine like, was subconsciously there. That made me really stressed. So, you know, for anyone listening that's like, oh, you know, there's people that always feel natural in front of the camera.

I can probably guarantee you at some stage they're, you know, nervous about something and maybe it took a thousand takes and you know, I know some people that use like. Um, teleprompters now to get their words out because they've stressed about it over time. So I think even, even the people that seem so natural on camera, also just as stressed.

Sam: Totally, totally. It's all like, it's all context based and like this stuff, like what you're describing, like that, like nervous system activation, like it's part of being human. So like yeah, some of us like go through periods where it's really frustrating. We feel it all the time and then we're like, I'm an anxious person, or I'm just a neurotic person, and it's like.

It seems like every, like other people would just like have [00:17:00] this like free pass to like go around, like never feel these kinds of things, but it's, it, it is something that everyone feels because it is, it is literally an integral part of being human and like to that end, um, yeah, all of these things are learned.

Um. We're constantly taking in new information. Everything we do, every thought we have is changing our brain all the time. Um, and so every, like, we're constantly integrating new information and like, it doesn't always, sometimes, but less frequently than we think. Does it actually serve us to try and figure out the story behind it?

Because usually when we try and identify a story, then we're like, um. Then we're like, you know, actually strengthening those neural pathways in our brain. So we're actually building up the fear or the reaction or whatever by like building up the story. So another thing that's like really freeing and like neuroplasticity and coaching the [00:18:00] unconscious mind is that it moves us away from story and meaning making.

Because it's like, at the end of the day, do you wanna know why you were stressed in front of the camera? Or do you wanna not be stressed in front of the camera? 

Mariah: Hmm. 

Sam: Right. And I think, um, 

Mariah: good point. 

Sam: So like again, there can be power to like, like sometimes we do need to unpack these things, but I think it's really worth trying these practices first, and then if it doesn't get the results that you want, then trying to stay like maybe what else is going on?

But like sometimes, like the other thing too behind story is that like it can be really fucking boring. Like it can be like the most mundane thing. Like one time I sent an email and then a boss yelled at me and now emails feel like death. And like part of what happens too is that like. Like why things like exposure therapy frequently do not work or like getting practice doing something that that frightens us.

Like sometimes it gets us over it, other times it really doesn't and it feels like a crap shoot. But what's actually happening [00:19:00] is that like once our nervous system is activated. All at once is like, it's like starting the stress cycle. It wants the stress cycle to complete, so it wants you to do one of those things.

It wants you to fight or flight or freeze or fawn, like it wants to do something to like reestablish safety because like in the past, like our ancestors. You know, did not feel like they were dying because they were sending emails. They felt like they were dying because they were being chased by something like, because they needed to do something to like, make sure that they were gonna like, survive the moment.

And so like when we downplay, like the task that we're trying to do, and I think that happens so much in marketing where like it's just, it's just a fucking Instagram post. It's just an email. Like it shouldn't be this big of a deal. We like bully ourselves rather than just taking it at face value and just being like, for some reason this feels like death.

And if I can care for myself through it, and if I can make it not feel like death, I'll learn that this is actually a like ridiculously safe thing to [00:20:00] do. 

Mariah: Hmm. 

Sam: Um, and a lot of this is the reason why I'm like, I have this like big chip on my shoulder about the phrase self-sabotage, because I think people use it a lot and it is.

Such poison to self-trust because it's like, what do you make of the fact that you think that part of your unconscious mind or like part of yourself is trying to ruin you? Like it suggests that like we are trying to harm ourselves. And it's, I think it belies the fact that like everything that we do, everything we do is designed around our survival.

Mariah: Hmm. 

Sam: Even the weirdest, most fucked up things, even when we shoot ourselves in the foot, like professionally or whatever, like part of us is doing that because it thinks that's the safest way for us to move forward. And when we call something self-sabotage, we're robbing ourselves of the fact that like, like we're robbing [00:21:00] ourselves of that trust, that every part of us has good intentions, right?

And so then we try and overcome something rather than partnering with our unconscious mind, partnering with our past experience, partnering with whatever it is to figure out how to bring our full self forward. Again, like, just, just draining our mind of cognitive energy and like, and creativity and everything in the process.

Mariah: Mm. Oh, I love that. Yeah. I love what you say about like, yeah. Trying to understand why, um, that's me like always like wanting to know, okay, why, why do I feel like that? Why did that happen? And yeah, as you're saying, like spend all that mental energy trying to work out why instead of just like. Moving forward with it.

I, I, I completely resonate with that. 'cause I'm always over analyzing every, everything it's human do. Yeah, of course. And I, and I do think, like, yeah, and it's interesting that you say about like, um, [00:22:00] you know, everyone has their own, um. Their own thing, right? It's like, for me, and, and that, and I had this really interesting experience when I, I did some um, accounting stuff last year and I really avoided it 'cause I was like, oh, this just feels so yuck.

And, um, I was like, oh, this is how my clients feel when I ask them to fill something. I asked them to do something with content. 'cause I like often 99% of the time don't overthink it. And just like. Do it. And I don't have that reaction of feeling unsafe. And then it's like, oh yeah, maybe that's how people feel me doing all this accounting work versus marketing.

'cause it's easy for me. And like I was talking about this the other day of like when I have stuff on my to-do list and I'm like, okay, I could work on my own business. What am I gonna focus on? And I go, oh, creating social media is easy for me, so I'll do that first. And you know what you're saying is it's not actually like me trying to sabotage all the other stuff.

It's just like where I probably feel. The most safe. So I sort of go to [00:23:00] that. 'cause it feels safe, right? 

Sam: Totally, totally. And once you, like, once you are not afraid of yourself, like once you know that every part of you is in some way working towards the same goal, then it becomes a lot easier to kind of have like internal dialogue with yourself and be like, like.

I know that I feel drawn to doing this thing that's a little bit easier right now. Like this feels salient, but I'm not gonna invest in that. Like I hear your brain, but I think it's more important for me to do this. And I'm like, this is really the basis for, like with my clients, we like are constantly teasing apart, like what we want from what we feel like doing.

Mm. 

Sam: Right. So like someone could want to wake up early and spend a couple hours doing their creative practice before they have to go do like a different kind of day job, but when they, our alarm goes off, maybe they feel like staying in bed. Right. And like, how do you kind of like, how do you recognize that?

That's just something your brain is saying in that moment and let it be okay to be [00:24:00] like, but I'm gonna try and stick with what I wanna do anyway. 

Mariah: Hmm. Yeah, and I think that's, um, I, I read something about like confidence being the definition of like self-trust. So to build confidence in yourself, it's like trusting yourself more.

So if you say, I wanna get up early and work on my creative practice before I start doing, you know, other activities and you don't do that, then like, it's harder to build that confidence in yourself. 'cause there's that level of self-trust. 

Sam: Yeah. Well, but if you practice. Like coming from a place of self-trust.

Then you say, okay, I really want to show up for my creative practice first thing in the morning, and it's not happening. So instead of trying harder, I'm gonna assume that I'm already trying hard enough. Right? I'm gonna figure out if there is another thing that's like in my way and like sometimes that thing is like usually [00:25:00] that thing.

'cause I work with a lot of neurodivergence because I am a neurodivergent. It's environmental. It's like, it's like too much mental energy to fi figure out what to wear in the morning before getting outta the house. I'm not sure what to have for breakfast. Like I'm not, I don't have a clean workspace to sit down and start working at and everything and it's like, all right.

Those are problems you can solve. And then like once you solve for those things, then now like you try again the next morning and like you see if like now all these things are decided, you've removed this from your cognitive load, is it easier for you to show up and do the thing that you wanna do and like honestly, nine times outta 10 it is.

Yeah. Yeah. Is 

Mariah: it also 'cause like, and this has happened to me before, like when I'm. Say we use the example of getting up in the mornings 'cause I'm really excited to do it as well. So I have that like excitement, whereas like if I'm gonna sleep in, it's because I'm not really that excited. Like it doesn't excite me.

So what you're saying is like, yeah, if your your environment isn't how you want or there's other things that have stressed you out, then you're just gonna avoid [00:26:00] it. 

Sam: Yeah. 

Mariah: Yeah, 

Sam: yeah, yeah. And there's also a funny thing, like, so all of those things being true, but there's also this really funny thing of like, fake it till you make it is like a very real, like, it's a very real strategy.

So like, uh, like sometimes I will coach people on, if you have trouble getting up early in the morning, what you need to do is just jump out of bed. Pretend that you are someone who loves to get up early. 

Mariah: Yeah. 

Sam: And like just, just try it on. 

Mariah: Yeah. 

Sam: Like see how it goes. And usually like that too will be like then like that enthusiasm kind of lands in that moment for your brain.

Again, coaching the unconscious mind and like it frees you to actually be able to do that. 

Mariah: Yeah. Okay. So anyone listening with your content creation, how could you. Get excited to do it. 'cause I feel like, and even with clients, you know, you're waiting on them to film a video or something and it's like, yes, it's that energy like that they need to get it done.

But I think it's like [00:27:00] trying to kind of jumpstart that energy can be quite challenging. So I'm curious to know with, um, kind of the work you do with like unconscious mind neuroplasticity, like what are some of the things that we can do to start thinking about shifting that. I like what you say about like, you know, if you are always trying to think about why you're not doing it and all the things you're creating that pathway that just strengthens that belief in you not being able to do it right or you feeling that way.

So I'm curious to know like what techniques you teach that can help like us rewire or change that belief, that belief pattern. It's probably a very big question, but I'm curious to know like what are some of the things that you would recommend we do? Because I think like, yeah, as I said. A lot of the times we know we need to be on these platforms, or we know we need to send that email to our email list that maybe we've neglected in six months or something like that.

But it's like, yeah, how do we get to the point where we can like have that belief in, in [00:28:00] showing up or doing the things and not have that response? 

Sam: Yeah, so that like usually these conversations. Like specifically about like neuroplasticity and like self-directed neuroplasticity, um, are about like kind of getting a task or a practice to happen.

Mariah: Mm-hmm. 

Sam: And what I'm hearing in your question a little bit is like this kind of broader thing of like, how do you, like, how do you find enthusiasm to show up altogether? 

Mariah: Mm-hmm. 

Sam: And that's a little bit more, that's a little bit of a bigger question. It's also something that's like very much at the heart of what I do.

It's like highly specific though. The thing is like you need to be, you either need to be doing what you wanna be doing or you need to figure out what you want and what you are doing and connect to that. 

Mariah: Mm. 

Sam: That's how you use desire to like get yourself to do something rather than like, and like let yourself be pulled into [00:29:00] doing something.

Like have, feel that, ease, that draw. Rather than like feeling obligation and needing to push yourself to do something once we're again, like once we're pushing ourselves, we're using cognitive energy against our creativity and like against like what our brain is and our body is naturally craving. And then like.

It just kind of drains us. 

Mariah: Hmm. 

Sam: So it's, it's, it's really about coming back to the, to the why. And I think if I can, like a question that you floated before we started recording, um, or like in our communications before, um, was like, what, um, what would I suggest for like someone who's like, their marketing just isn't clicking.

Like, is that maybe like, have something to do with, um, like unconscious blocks. And I would say like, yeah, to a degree, but I think maybe it takes going a little bit further past, like, what does it, what does it mean for marketing to not be clicking? [00:30:00] And I, I think it's like, it's like, like, and I, I maybe, I don't wanna like, like, uh, make assumptions about your audience, but it's like, if marketing isn't working, I'm assuming that means that they're not getting the sales that they want, they're not getting the response that they want.

Mm-hmm. Right. So. Marketing is really like, for me, it's just, it's an extension of like, just talking, just communicating about the thing that we wanna sell, right? 

Mariah: Mm-hmm. 

Sam: And like when we're passionate about what we're offering, it's like, it like comes from us really easily. And then after it's like, it's like applying these, I think it's like.

Like when we feel that passion about selling, when we're excited to sell, then the conversation around marketing is just like what structure we wanna give. Mm-hmm. Our selling. Right. It becomes just like kind of the scaffolding to like how to reach more people and how to get out there. Um, and I think [00:31:00] where people lose drive really fast, where I've lost drive in the past in my own business and I have really had to have like a.

Come to atheist, Jesus moment around. It was, um, like we start with the marketing and then we try and plug passion in on the backend. 

Mariah: Mm. 

Sam: And sometimes that has us making the selling into who we're selling. 

Mariah: Mm. 

Sam: And kind of just like spinning our wheels like that. So I think, yeah, again, like these practices are super powerful and they can like really help you to show up.

But like, for better or worse, like they will guide you towards like. What you desire. It's not, you're not gonna gaslight yourself into doing something that you don't wanna do with these. It's the reason I get really excited to share them. It's like you're not, you can't, you can only like, feel like worst case scenario, you feel more relaxed, but like, like you can't, yeah, you're not gonna make something up.

You're not going to, you're not gonna lie to yourself about your experience. So like, [00:32:00] if. Overall you feel disenchanted with marketing, then like sometimes these tools can help to connect you back to like your why. But I think ultimately like that is the journey you have to be on is making sure that you're selling something you're passionate about and making sure you're selling it like to your to, to people who are authentically your people and in a way that feels authentic to you because anything else.

Beyond that is just gonna be a bandaid. Like even like the most powerful like, like hypnosis and stuff that I know. Like you're gonna, like, you'll just fall back out of love with like the thing you're doing. It would just be temporary. 

Mariah: Yeah. 

Sam: Um, so yeah. But I think also like a lot of like coaching the unconscious mind.

Like if you like, and this should really be the thing for like all coaching, this should be like the standard that all coaches are held to, is that like. You should be able to work with someone who helps you to name what that is, right? 

Mariah: Mm-hmm. 

Sam: And like, and that might be in your unconscious and it's [00:33:00] probably beneath what you think you should be doing and what you think it's supposed to look like and all of those things.

But like, but like, yeah, when you're able to actually tap into that, to that desire, to that thing that moves you, um, what I say with my clients, it's like the thing that you're passionate about, that you're good at, and that you can be well compensated for. Like when you get to that. It becomes so easy. Yeah.

It just, yeah, 

Mariah: yeah, yeah. I get it. I get that. And I think like, it's super interesting because with, yeah, the marketing, we're always thinking about like, yeah, what is the tactic or what, like what are people doing to get people to listen and et cetera. And I had a call with someone yesterday and they all Tuesday, and they were saying like, you know, I've been so.

I'm consuming so much of what to do that I now don't know what to do because I'm so paralyzed with what hook to use and what this and what that, and they're just like the icing on the cake of you talking about what you love. And I really [00:34:00] like how you say that because I think sometimes we. We don't share what we wanna share in the way that we wanna share it because we get so caught up in what we're seeing online of like how to do things, how to structure a video, like why this video went viral.

And like I could tell you, yes, of course, like in basic storytelling, there is structure to story that makes it engaging and exciting for people to listen to from like psychology standpoint, right? But at the end of the day, if you share the story and the way that feels authentic to you, like I've watched, you know, series like TikTok 50 part series on.

Just an exciting story because that person really just wanted to share it, you know? And you could tell they felt like they really needed to share it and there was like that kind of energy around it. So I really love what you say in that because if you start with passion first, the marketing, all those marketing like strategies and tactics will kind of fall into place with like you just sharing your passion.

Yeah. And I think a lot of the times we feel like. We need to know that a hundred percent before we put it out there as well. And I, and I often find like [00:35:00] you kind of do that by showing up and like we get so paralyzed and it needing to be perfect before it goes out. But like the first time I hit live on my social media, I was like, and for anyone that's watching this, my, like, I was shaking and like, you know, but I, I was excited to show off and share my new business and like, I think.

A lot of the times, if you, whoever you engage with or buy from or even, um, you know, the compliments that you wanna get from people are like, oh my God, you're really passionate about what you can, what you do. I, I can feel that, and I, I, I think that really is the key to good marketing. I love that you said that, because I think, yeah, we get caught up in the, the, the nitty gritty of marketing instead of just, they like.

That doesn't, I don't think I could do that. Like I don't think I could show up in that way and it wouldn't feel authentic to me. I think that's, it's so true. And that, and that's probably why like maybe it isn't actually video for you. Like maybe it isn't another way. Like I've seen people do beautiful, like the way they write or the way, and that like attracts people.

Like [00:36:00] I think that's just, and that's why I have a quiz on my website. It's like, find the channel that works for you, you know, first and then. On the, how you can get your audience to kind of like, it's, it's that sort of balance, but, 

Sam: which is what I really enjoy in your podcast. I like that you're not afraid to have those conversations about like, what does it look like to have life without social media, like to do marketing without social media and stuff, and like full disclosure, like you came to my Instagram.

It is, people would not call that aspirational, like the numbers of followers and everything, but I'm like, yeah. Like, I would say that my marketing works really well because I am selling what I need to sell, and I am in touch with who I need to be in touch with. Mm-hmm. And I'm like bringing my people in, like, and I guess I'm mentioning it too because like I'm about to actually like fully delete my Instagram.

Um, and just focus on my email, which is my favorite way to be in touch with people. 

Mariah: Yeah. 

Sam: Because I found that, like, I've used these practices for myself to be able to show up [00:37:00] more for social media and stuff like that. And like the thing that happened at the end of like, at the end of like a lot of reflection and a lot of self-directed neuroplasticity and like getting support from other people and like becoming really comfortable on Instagram was that I decided I don't like it.

I just don't care enough. It's just not my jam. Yeah. And it's like, Ooh, I really thought there was gonna be something more special on the other side of building comfort with this. But there isn't. Yeah. And like for me that like, I can still find that spiciness in that challenge in my emails with my people.

Yeah. So it's like, it's not. It's like I, I know that I am not like shirking a challenge. I'm like finding something that like feels expansive. Right. And I think that's really important too. Like you were saying, like, like we can like end up like chasing like all of these like algorithm, like hacks and everything.

And I think, you know, like for someone like you, I, I get the impression that like, you [00:38:00] really enjoy the problem solving around, like, figuring out a lot of these marketing things. And I think like that's a really, like, that's a really sexy energy for your brain, right? Like, it, it feels really good. But I think for someone where, like, it's not about problem solving or challenges, it's, it's about trying to like hack a thing or figure it out.

Like that's where, that's where you're gonna burn out because these things are designed. For that too, right? Mm. Like they know that we are dependent on this shit for marketing and like they don't care whether or not our business struggles. They care whether or not we keep on using this app. So like, they will intentionally make it so that like, like all like, I mean, I'm no expert in a lot of this stuff.

But like the idea that like, we're still talking about posting consistently when like very clearly, like it's been over a year where like that doesn't work for people. Like, it's just like, it's that same man, it's full circle. It's back to that same like, like you're trying to like use willpower and you're trying to use self discipline to like keep posting [00:39:00] consistently and like it's a unilateral thing where like then Instagram can just be like, well, you're not posting consistently enough, or you haven't tried this new thing over here.

Yeah. I think again, if you're, if you're someone who enjoys solving those problems and who enjoys that challenge of like trying to play with these different pieces and like, and like whatever, then like that is more power to you. But like, if that is not you, then yeah, you can burn out really fast trying to chase all that stuff.

Mariah: Yeah, and I think there's lots of things that come from this as well, and I always bring it back to like, why you on that platform is like, for example, like I don't use Instagram to sell anything. Like, it's just not where I do that. But I do build community and connection and I, I do like that aspect. So lots of people that are using these platforms, they, they, you know, need to realize like what is the overall purpose of that platform.

Like, what am I using it for? Beyond like posting content? Am I using it to like connect to my community? Do I really [00:40:00] like having conversations with people I love, like sharing, like on stories, like the updates that are happening in my life and, and, um. I think that's helped me like, you know, I posted a video for fun, right?

I, I, I was at Christmas. My, my parents live on a golf course. We got dad's golf cart out and my partner and I both had our laptops and we're like, pretending to work while my dad drove down the fairway. And it was really fun and it was funny and like, we just loved it and we put it up for Christmas and then I get a phone call and this doesn't happen all the time.

I'm not saying this is like the magical thing, but like, I got a phone call. Earlier this year from that golf course, I said, Hey, we saw your video, we really liked it. We wanna have a conversation about like how you could potentially help us. And that doesn't happen all the time, right? But that was coming from a place of like, I just liked doing that.

And that was fun for me with no expectation. Right? And the whole purpose of that was just to like create fun in my community and to show the fun ways that you, and obviously I teach content, so like it's, it's so different from me. It's like the people that teach Instagram reels. They teach hacks on Instagram reels and [00:41:00] trends and they have heaps of likes and views and followers.

And you think if you do that, you'll get the same. But it's because that's their thing. That's the, they're meant to get likes and comments 'cause they're talking about something that everyone wants to learn about. Right. Whereas like, I had this conversation with my client who does flow coaching and yeah.

What's the, I said like. You are not teaching Instagram, right? Like people that teach Instagram generally get a lot more engagement 'cause they're teaching about the platform that they're on. And not from an algorithm standpoint, just because everyone wants to learn about it, right? They're like, oh, well I'm on this platform, I wanna learn about this platform.

So we're comparing ourselves to people that their why is to get impressions, views, you know, all the things. And I look at this from different clients I work from, from the local fish and chip shop. That impressions are powerful because they don't have a website. It's like we need people to know who they are.

Do we use like we and, and the energy of that is to create fun and conversation and to make the fish chips and the food look fun and to do fun things like that is the goal. Whereas another client is just about brand. They want their customers to see [00:42:00] that they're there, they're there, they're active, we're in business, you know?

And I think sometimes we forget why we're on the platform, and that's when we get so caught up on it, and that's when we burn out because we're like, we're trying to do what other people are telling us to do, rather than going like. Oh yeah. I'm just here because I like. Teaching people, like, I'm really passionate about what I wanna do and I wanna like put that somewhere and Oh 

Sam: my God.

Yeah. 

Mariah: You know, rather than, and that, and that's why I love like focusing on the, the, the, the email marketing to nurture the community on a deeper level or, or the website or the blog or the podcast or, you know, something that really like. Brings people into your space and social media can be that social platform that you just use.

And for the people that don't wanna be social, you don't, you don't have to be there. It's just finding your space of how people can learn about you. And I actually think we are going back to more like traditional marketing as well, like. Networking, connecting or, um, you know, uh, letterbox drops and like, depends on where you are and what you do and how that works for you, you know, for like, um, the [00:43:00] creative space, like going to shows and galleries and showing your work or trying to connect with the people.

Um, I've got clients that are doing things like sponsoring events and, you know, all those different types of marketing that kind of brings new people to your space. And then you don't have to rely on this like social media to like continue to bring new people. And that's when the numbers don't. Really matters so much because it's like, as you are saying, like I'm the same, like my audience really doesn't grow that quickly.

It's like a slow burn. But that's how people build trust with me. And they go there to see if I'm like legit, if I know what I'm doing, they like my energy. Yeah, cool. We, we, we want to go further. We wanna join at mailing list, or we want listen to our podcast or we wanna work with her. So I think it's like all those things, right.

And I think we get so caught up in it needing to be this like. Build passive income. Why are you asleep? Just post on Instagram and people will be buying your stuff. And it's like, that's just not. 

Sam: Right. No, I love how you named like these different objectives because that's totally it. Like you could be, you could be there because you're a fish and chip shop.

You could be there [00:44:00] just because you need your brand to have an online presence, and then you're looking at someone who's doing something totally different and you're like, you're very quickly comparing yourself to them, which again is. The goal of these apps is to make us feel shitty about ourselves.

Mariah: Yeah. 

Sam: But I think like being clear on like what you're doing there. I mean, 'cause the other thing is like, yeah, you're talking about like people talking about Instagram and getting like a lot of traction. There's also like a lot of people who get a lot of traction who don't actually sell a lot. So if you Exactly.

They're just good at like being really visible. Not necessarily at like, actually like. Selling or supporting people or anything beyond like the image that they're presenting. And I think like that can also be really seductive when we forget to see, we forget to think about what's happening beyond the scenes.

And I think a way to have like good self boundaries around that is like exactly what you're saying. Like be really clear about what you're doing there and like, don't let yourself be called into doing someone else's thing. And if it's not serving you. 'cause the other thing is, I think that doesn't get talked about enough is that [00:45:00] it is very.

As challenging as it is to chase all of the new information about how to hack social media and all of that stuff, it is easier to let yourself go down that path frequently than it is to have a real conversation with a person or your people. To have that direct, like sometimes we do that to avoid getting closer to the actual like sale part, to the actual community part, to the actual connection.

We're like chasing the next person because we're like still have blocks around, like how to show up for the people who are already here close to us. So I think that's also a really, like, I think that's something that can also really possibly come to light when you get clear about your why behind, like what you're doing on these different channels.

Mariah: Yeah. Oh my God, it's, so, I've, I've seen that way too many times. Like, and I actually did a video, I did a video on it, um, last year because I, I was getting my looking for someone to renovate our bus and went to see someone and emailed [00:46:00] them and, you know, was really keen. And they were really keen and then they went away.

But they were still posting on social media, but not like. Let's lock it, like trying to like lock that, that sale in or do that. And I'm like, how many times have we, or even foregoing, like, um, you know, our first customers are probably gonna be people we know or, you know, for the first few years it's gonna be people in our like first degree, second degree, like third degree kind of comes with like that kind of working out who your person is and, and being really in flow with what you do.

And I think we always disregard like the, the, the community groups we're part of and the. Um, people that are in our current network that are going to buy from us 'cause they already know us. Um, 

Sam: yeah. 

Mariah: Rather than like, and we're always like, oh, I need new people. I need new people. And it's like, you forget about the people that are like, I, I literally had, um, a mentor that I like years and years ago I was working with and I was like, Hey, send me details.

I wanna keep working with you. And like, were so caught up in like that, they [00:47:00] just never. Go back to me, um, you know, didn't sell the thing that they wanted to sell and wanted to do because yes, they were really caught up in the social stuff. And I, I like that you call that out and that, and that, that can be a really hard, um, thing to come to terms with, I think.

Like, oh, you know, oh, okay. I, I am, I am. Why? Like, and as you say, why instead of why, like just try and move forward and I think we're always trying to overanalyze what we do, but Yeah, totally. I see that a lot. 

Sam: And I think, I think if I can like, give your people one thing to take away from this, like a, like a act actionable thing.

Um, because like we don't really have the, you know, uh, I guess a lot of people are listening rather than looking, so I'm not gonna like show a like, self-directed neuroplasticity thing. But I think something like away that we can. Create the space to change our unconscious mind is by getting curious about what we're doing, right?

If we are not self-sabotaging, if every part of us is working towards something [00:48:00] like better for ourselves, then like curiosity around maybe like, like why does this feel like this? How can I make this feel a little bit safer? Like, like what's a different way forward? What am I maybe avoiding? Here. So like even the fact that like, we're introducing this idea that like very frequently marketing gets used as an excuse to like, avoid being in touch with people.

Like to, if that is you, if you are feeling called out right now that like you, that's power. That's fucking, that's so much insight that you can like, use if you're willing to get curious and sit with that discomfort, like you can find exactly what you need in that, in that information. Um. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

It's 

Mariah: powerful. Yeah. And I think a lot of times that, that seems like overwhelming, but I think it's important, right, to sit with that and just, um, acknowledge it. And I think that's like the first step to kind of moving through it, right? I, I, I think, um, yeah, it's, [00:49:00] it's very powerful thing to leave us with because I think we're, we're often, yeah, trying to, as I said, I do that a lot, a lot of the times, but I know I can work on something over here.

I'm like, oh, I could. I know that could get done very quickly. I just, I just do that first. Then, you know, the leads, like the leads tasks that always are my clickup that always move to the next day. 'cause I was like, oh, I didn't have time. 

Sam: Yeah. Oops. Yeah. Again, noticing that difference between like the feel like and the one to, and be like, all right, let me get curious about why.

The thing I want to do, I'm not actually doing is like, and I think, I think the other things that you've named that I like really wanna highlight too is like, as like. Beacons are fun and play and experimenting, right? If you, if you bring curiosity and you're looking for like what feels fun, what feels aligned, and you're willing to use play and like, experiment with like, oh man, it feels wild to just like email someone I haven't been in touch with in six months and ask them if they wanna buy from me again or just reconnect or whatever.

But [00:50:00] like, well, let's fucking see what happens. You know? Like, I think, I think the bolder we are, like the more of a win-win we create for ourselves because. Like we, if we have a bold, if we have a bold ask, ask. If we do something bold, then like either like we get kind of like a no and um, it's sort of like, yeah, well that was a giant ask, so I guess that kind of makes sense.

Or we get a miracle. I. Right. 

Mariah: Yeah. I love that. I, I, I, I love, and, and you know, what's the most powerful thing about those things is schedule send. You know, you schedule your email or you schedule your, like if it's on Gmail or like Outlook, I always schedule send because then I know I'm, I haven't actually done it yet, and it gets done without me knowing, and then I'm like.

I feel good. 

Sam: Oh, well then let me give you one, let me give you one, like nervous system regulating thing that can help with these kinds of like, like, oh yes, please. You know, uh, rewiring your brain is like a full body shake. Mm. Just like shaking [00:51:00] hard like a wet dog. 

Mariah: Yeah, 

Sam: doing it on camera, you're listening and like really like all the way out to like your wrists and your legs.

It's a nervous system reset. That like frees our neural pathways to be open to the idea that yes, this is a safe thing to do. 

Mariah: Oh, yeah. Like actually having been, I've been naturally fighting myself doing that. Right. Recently, like, I don't know why I'm like, okay 

Sam: to do thing, 

Mariah: shake it out. Yeah. That's interesting.

Yeah, because I, my part I'm, I'm always like, 'cause I'm most of the time dysregulated after things, so I'm like, okay. Shake it out. It's a really 

Sam: good one. 

Mariah: We could do this. It's 

Sam: a really good one. 

Mariah: Yeah, 

Sam: they're magical. Like it's like I, like I tell my clients it's like a magic button, but you have to hit the button.

Mariah: Mm-hmm. 

Sam: Like you have to remember to actually do the thing. 

Mariah: Yeah. 

Sam: Yeah. 

Mariah: I love that. So I'm really curious at how people can find you work with you. I mean, you said you're gonna shut your socials down, so how can we learn more about what you do? 

Sam: So mysterious. Um, well my website come, come, come to my website, um, [00:52:00] art of and discipline.com.

Um. And, um, there you can find out how to get in touch with me. I love meeting new people. I love one-on-one connections. Um, you know, if you are like more of like. The slow burn need to be seduced type. You can also sign up for my emails, which again are like totally bomb. Um, I really, I really love sharing them with people.

Um, yeah. And then from there too, like it also connects to my art website, so you can see some of like. The weird art that I put out into the world at the 

Mariah: same time. Amazing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna stalk that your website is very beautiful, so we'll put all the links in the show notes. But thank you so much, Sam, I've loved this chat.

You've really got me thinking about all the things that I do and, um, I'm gonna be very curious today and see, and I think that's the thing, right? Like when you are in your workday, like trying to be present because that's when you actually find you can move through things. Whereas if you're just kind of doing it.

Like da da, like you, you often [00:53:00] aren't curious enough to work out. Like, why am I avoiding, like, what, why? I mean, I'm avoiding that, aren't I? Like, you know, I'm pushing that down the list. So I think that awareness phase is good, but you can't do that if you're not present. 

Sam: Totally, totally. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you so much for this.

This was, this was so much fun. I really enjoyed our conversation. Yeah, 

Mariah: amazing. Thank you so much. I would love to know. Yeah, what, what's that pattern? What's that thing that keeps you stuck and, yeah, I mean, Sam really got. Me thinking a lot about these blockers and these mindset shifts, you know, obviously it is a lot deeper than just posting the content.

Like there's always these blockers that are stopping us from marketing and putting ourselves out there. I had a call today with a coach for, uh, practitioners and she was mentioning Yeah, those blockers around, um, selling and promotion. Right. And that's what Sam brought up in their conversation about.

Neuroplasticity and unconscious mind. They seem to be the blockers and there's stuff that we always have to [00:54:00] keep working through. So super interesting conversation. I'd love to know sort of what came up for you, but yeah, it's a really interesting thing to reflect on, but be a content queen or king, and remember that developing your strategy and story develops your business.

Thank you so much for joining me today, and don't forget to share this with all your business and entrepreneurial friends. You can do this by adding it to your Insta Stories and tagging me at Content Queen Ryan, or just simply tell 'em about it. We can conversation if you do rate and review, it does help me get amazing guests on like Sam, who shares their amazing knowledge with us and gives their time.

So yeah, if you could do that, that would mean the world to me. And yeah, follow me on Instagram TikTok. Lemme know if there's any topics you wanna talk about in the future. And I'll see you next week. Bye.

PodcastMariah MacInnesmarketing, marketing advice, how to be authentic online, business ownerComment