297: How to pitch podcasts - your pitching framework | Christina Lenkowski

Want to be seen by more people? Struggle to grow an audience on social media? 

What about being in other people’s spaces? 

Earned media is a great way to expand your reach and tap into an already engaged audience. 

So why not start with podcasting? Pitch podcasts and start being seen (and heard) by an aligned community. 

If you have a mindset struggle around this or don’t know where to start, we have got you. Christina Lenkowski is here to share all her pitching secrets (and she is the expert as she does it for business owners every. single. day! 

If you LOVED this episode, make sure you share this on your Instagram stories and tag us @contentqueenmariah.

⁠⁠⁠⁠LEARN THE DETAILS OF A CONTENT STRATEGY WITH MY FREE AUDIO GUIDE⁠⁠⁠⁠

KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS 👇

✨ How to create the perfect pitch 

✨ How to get out of your own way and BE on other people’s podcast 

✨ How earned media can benefit your business 

SHOW RESOURCES 👇

If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @contentqueenmariah⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!

Other than that, enjoy - chat next week 💕

ABOUT THE GUEST 

Christina Lenkowski is a forward-thinking podcast publicist and educator for business owners, speakers and authors looking to expand their credibility and go from “best-kept secret” to “go-to expert” in their industries through being a guest on other people’s podcasts. 

In 2019, after 13 years working in the PR realm, Christina discovered what being a guest on podcasts did for her online-based business -- since then she’s dedicated her work to helping other business owners, particularly women, see the same kind of results. 

She’s been a guest on almost 100 podcasts, including Her Empire Builder, Brand Gravity and The Heather Sager Show, and helped her private clients get booked on over 900 top-rated shows, including Hello Seven with Rachel Rodgers, Superwomen Wellness, Cubicle to CEO, The Copywriter Club and Get Paid with Claire Pelletreau, among others. 

Christina lives in Boise, Idaho, USA, with her husband and daughter. 

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

This is episode 297, and if you're looking to pitch on podcasts, this is the episode for you 'cause I've got such an amazing guest. Welcome to the Content Queen podcast. I'm your host, Mariah, entrepreneur storyteller, digital nomad, creative content bootcamp, and founder of Content Queen. I'm here to teach you how to share your unique story, create content, and market your business with strategy through the channels that work for you.

Each week I'll deliver a story to help you connect to a powerful strategy around. Marketing business and content creation. I will also be joined by amazing souls and entrepreneurs. We are here to share their own journey, along with actual steps to help you take your business to a whole new level through amazing storytelling, powerful aligned marketing and content strategy.

Let's do it. Hello gang. How are we all? Okay. Podcast pitching. So we've had a few guests over the last. Since Content Queen started actually about PR and and podcasting and being a guest on other people's podcasts and what we call [00:01:00] earned media. We had recently an amazing PR agency owner who come on and spoke about like pitching media, and now we have an amazing.

PR agency owner here to talk about podcast pitching. Now, this guest has been on before and she has such amazing energy and gives so much value. So I'm gonna introduce Christina and then come back and we can wrap up the show. But you're gonna love it. Have a pen and paper ready? So Christina Langowski is a forward thinking podcast publicist and educator for business owners.

Speakers and authors looking to expand their credibility and go from best kept secret to go-to expert in their industries through being a guest on other people's podcasts In 2019, after 13 years working in the PR realm, Christina discovered what being a guest on podcast did for her online business.

Since then, she's dedicated her work to helping business owners, particularly women, see the same kind of results [00:02:00] she's been on. Almost a hundred podcasts as a guest, including her Empire Builder Brand Gravity, and the Heather Seger Show. And of course, the Content Queen Podcast twice and helped her private clients get booked on over 900 top rated shows, including Hello Sevens with Rachel Rogers, superwoman, wellness Cubicle to CEO, the Copywriter Club, and get paid with Claire.

Just among the few. And she's based in Idaho, in the United States with her husband and daughter. So let's get stuck into this juicy episode. Thank you so much, Christina. This is the second time on. I know the Content Queen podcast. Thank you for coming on again. Um, but because you know, we have new, different listeners all the time, I'd love for you to kick off and share who you are and what you do and a little bit about your business story.

Cristina: First off, thank you, Mariah. I am so excited to be back on the podcast and talking with an Australian, you know, I love my Aussies and so I love to have, uh, conversations and everything like that with, um, well with people [00:03:00] everywhere. But it's really fun to, um. Get to speak to Australians as well, so thank you.

Thank you for having me on. Um, so for me, what I do is my agency gets people booked on podcasts. So what I really like to say is we help people go from kind of best kept secret to the go-to expert in their industry, um, by being a guest on other people's podcasts. And I think that's an important distinction.

We're not talking today about starting your own podcast like Mariah. Has, um, it is more so getting on other people's podcasts, leveraging their audiences, et cetera. And, and I absolutely love to do what I do. 

Mariah: Mm, I love it. And, uh, you've definitely provided some amazing guests on this podcast before your team, so Yay.

So thank you for that. Um, when we spoke. That was like two years ago. Nearly, like a couple years ago. Yeah. November, 2023. I remember. I was, I really remember the, the interview and everything, but um, we talked a lot about yeah, being a great guest and um, you know, how we can [00:04:00] leverage that. But one of the things I really wanted to talk about, 'cause I think this is something even myself like I am really hesitant to do and that is pitching, right?

So obviously that's what your agency helps and specialize in and your pitches are very good. Um, obviously 'cause you've, um, given me some amazing podcast guests. Um, it'd be embarrassing 

Cristina: if I was on and they weren't good. Right. Well, I'm glad to hear. It's always nice to hear it, you know. 

Mariah: Amazing. But yeah, and I, I, I've literally had a client recently and we're like, you know, I'm like, oh, I can write the pitch, but sending it is like a whole thing.

Like it's just, I think there's a lot of mindset around it, so, yeah. What do you see as the biggest challenge stopping people from being visible on podcasts and putting themselves out there? 

Cristina: I truly think that one of the biggest challenges is that people just wait for someone to ask them to be a guest on a show.

Mm-hmm. And I think that I, I kind of wanna switch your mindset about this a little bit and kind of explain like the analogy that I [00:05:00] give for this. I mean, I can't even tell you how many times I'm talking to people and they're like, yeah, I would love to be a more podcast, but like, not really many people are asking me.

And I'm like. That is not how this works. Yeah. Uh, at least if you're gonna be doing on a consistent basis as a major part of like your marketing that you're working on, right? Mm-hmm. And the analogy that I kind of like to say is, for way too long in my life, like way older than you should be. I thought that at like award shows, so the Grammys, the Emmys, forgive me, I'm Americans.

I'm just gonna say American Award shows, you know, et cetera. That's fine. We all, 

Mariah: we know 'em all, you 

Cristina: know, you know 'em, you know 'em. I thought that the judges or whatever were just like, ugh, you know what them, they've been doing a great job. Like let's, let's give them this award. Right? And in reality, all those people are applying.

For that award, right? They are all applying. They are shaking hands, kissing babies, doing all the things in the [00:06:00] background, attending all the stuff. To win those awards as well. Right. But I think the key here is like, it wasn't just that someone noticed that they were doing a great job and they just handed them an award.

It is the fact that they had to put themselves out there, say, I would like you to consider, uh, me for this award, or us, or whatever it is that they're doing. And then they were judged as to whether or not they were gonna receive that award. Mm-hmm. And so I want you to think about that when it comes to podcast guesting.

You. I mean, I'm not, I'm not trying to say worry about being judged. Yeah. But what I am saying is you have to put yourself out there, right? You have to be the one that are getting in front of the right hosts, in front of the right audiences. And I know we're gonna get into that, but getting in front of that and saying, Hey, I'm here and I would love to provide value to your audience.

And then the podcast host is going to decide whether you are the right fit or not. But the key to that is. You have to essentially apply for that opportunity. 

Mariah: Mm, yeah. That's, it's, it's so, [00:07:00] it's such a good mindset, reshift, isn't it? And I love that analogy because yeah, I think we're just like, oh, you know, people, and, and you know, people do ask and as a host, like, yeah, I ask some people to come on my podcast and things, but I love it when people email me and obviously, yeah.

And then it's up to me to see if they're a good fit. And I don't say yes to everybody, but yes, definitely, like, um. It, it's so nice to have people share their ideas and their concepts and, and obviously because they're trying to put themselves out there, they usually try and get the best topics that are gonna suit my audience, or, um, they're really relevant at the moment.

So, um, I think, yeah, as a, as a host. I, I like being pitched and I think it just gives you, like, it's also as a host when someone pitches you like, oh, they're listen to my, like they're listing. Absolutely. And it doesn't matter how big or small. Like I went to a conference recently and there was some pretty, like Spotify was there and um, there was one woman in Australia that has like.

A really great podcast and even she like is humbled by, you [00:08:00] know, the older, the podcasting world. So it's not like, you know, yeah, oh I can celebrate people coming on my show or it doesn't mean that it's 'cause you don't have a great show. It's like, yeah, it's nice to celebrate when people wanna be on it as well.

But I think, um, there is a lot of that mindset shift or as well, and you probably see it a lot is like. Being annoying. Like especially if you do follow ups, like if you pitch someone and you don't hear back or, um, you know, and, and don't like, seriously, this, I, I imagine your team have pitched me before and I've just been busy and I haven't responded, like I'm sure.

Oh, absolutely. You can come be like, oh yeah, I've gotta reply. You can't take that 

Cristina: personal, you 

Mariah: can't take that personal, the, 

Cristina: the fact of the matter is we're all human. We all flag things to respond to later, and then life gets in the way. You know, I was, I was just saying to Mariah before we hit record, like, I'm sitting here with a McDonald's cup because my husband's out of town and I had to take my daughters, you know, and then I grabbed her a Happy meal and threw it at her basically, as I ran upstairs, like we all have real life that we're doing, you know, and so we just forget things.

It doesn't mean that [00:09:00] someone read your pitch and then was like, oh, no. You know what I mean? It is very much if you send a well bought out pitch, it's just that life happens. So what I recommend, just like you said, is sending out a follow up. Typically one to three weeks after you send the initial pitch.

Right. You're not sending it the next day. That would be annoying. Okay. Yeah. Now I will, I, I like to give the caveat of like you're not annoying when you follow up, but if you were to follow up the very next day, yes, that would be annoying. Okay. But if you were to follow up a couple weeks later. Absolutely like that is not annoying.

You're sending a respectful thing. What I usually like to do is forward my original pitch and just say, Hey, just wanted to put this to the top of your inbox. Um, I really think so and so would be a great guest. And then maybe give a re one reason why. Thank you so much for your time. Mm-hmm. My name, right?

Yeah. Nothing. They have the whole pitch kind of below that has the topics like you said, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm not, you know, it's just a very respectful follow up. Now if you want to like, if you're really organized and I mean [00:10:00] we do this as a team 'cause this is what we do for a living. Yes. But like. We will also send a second follow up three to four weeks after that initial follow up.

Mm-hmm. And what we will actually do then is pitch a new topic. So we will actually say, Hey, if none of these really stood out to you, how about this one? Right. Um, and that's another thing that we'll send, and that has worked for us before to get bookings. Sometimes it's even just them going back to the initial and being like, oh, actually no, I really liked the one you sent.

Right. They just kind of need that reminder. Or we've had hosts that have been like, oh, I do like that one better. Yeah, let's go with that. Yeah. And then they move forward. So I will tell you like the magic is in the follow up a lot of the time. Do I have never heard a podcast host truly say that they are annoyed by follow up as long as it's done at appropriate intervals, um, of time, right?

Yeah. The only time I brought a podcast host be annoyed by follow up is because someone did follow up with them the very next day and then the very next day after that, right? Mm-hmm. So that is a little too much. But if there's like a week, couple weeks in between those. [00:11:00] They are not annoyed by that.

They'll tell you if, you know, if they are, but again, I've never had that experience. 

Mariah: Yeah, and I guess too, like there's those things that come into your mind, like the fear of rejection as well, of like, oh, they're gonna think I'm not good enough. Or they might say like, oh, and, and I think we have this in our mind that they're gonna, you know, a podcast host is gonna be like, oh no, that's a hor.

Like, you are not like, but I think the way they're gonna say is like, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, like some might say. You know, we are not taking guests at the moment. They're not gonna say like, your topic is bad. Or maybe they'll just say, oh, look, at the moment I'm not taking on any, you know, I'm sure, unless you, you correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm sure people aren't saying like, you're not good enough. You don't have a big enough audience, you don't have this, you don't have that. 

Cristina: No, we certainly don't have that issue. Uh, for the most part. Um. I will be honest, when you're pitching, a lot of times you're just gonna get ghosted, right? Yeah. Like that is very, very common.

So you cannot take that to heart [00:12:00] because just like you, Samara, there are 10 reasons behind the scenes that we have no idea about. Right? That could be that they have filled every spot for the year. That could be that they just had someone on that has a similar niche to you. It just hasn't aired yet, right?

Mm-hmm. There are so many different reasons. That a host is not going to have you on the podcast that have nothing to do with you, right? Yeah. And if you are sending a well thought out pitch, like if you have the topics, if you've thought about what their audience is really gonna want. You are never gonna have a host be like, Ew.

You know? Mm-hmm. The only time that a host is like Ew No, is when they can tell that it is a spray and pray style pitch, which is what we call when someone just mass pitches like a list, right? Mm-hmm. So there's no Mariah shaken paste. See, right now she knows it. She knows what it looks like. They know what it looks like.

It's like, oh, this person has no idea about my show. They do not know who my audience is. They don't understand what we talk [00:13:00] about at all. At all. Right. I've heard that many a times and yeah, she's like many times, that is the only time that I have, you know, that I think a host is ever going to be like, no, you know, and just for the most part, they just immediately delete.

Right. Yeah. But you have sent a well thought out pitch. Even if it's a no, even if it's ghosted, that has nothing to do with you. There are a hundred different reasons that they aren't moving forward with, with you. But the the other side of that is you're gonna get yeses too. 

Mariah: Yeah, of course. And you, you can't, you can't get any yeses without nos.

Right. So you have to, and it's funny that you said about like the copy and paste. I remember getting an email and it was like, Hey. I think they might've, I can't remember if they got my name right or not, but then it was like, um, I loved your, um, podcast. So, and that was, I'm like, um, I think you've got the wrong person.

This isn't my podcast name. And she's like, and like, how do you come back from that? 'cause you've just copied and pasted. 'cause she would've just been doing like, [00:14:00] um, yeah, he or she actually don't, can't remember if it was, um, male or female, but like, um. Yeah, just like copy and pasting and sending it.

Obviously they forgot to take out the last podcast 

Cristina: thing. Yes, 

Mariah: yes. Which, yes, can happen, but I think that's kind of, it 

Cristina: certainly can happen, but in my opinion, you really don't come from, come back from that. That's kind of just gonna be a moment of like, well, just, 

Mariah: I'm, yeah. I think I'm not gonna reply to.

Cristina: Just gonna, yeah, I think I'm just gonna let that one go. And I would even say that as the person pitching, you know, because we do this and I have had times where I've made mistakes like that, so not even in a message, but, or thing, but like, um, you know, in the template, I forget to take out the like put name of show, right?

Yeah, yeah, 

yeah, yeah. Of 

Cristina: course. Hey, I really think listeners of whatever, so it's not even like a part where we're getting really researched or whatever. And then I just have a moment. It's happened to me. The thing is, you do it once and you'll never do it again. 'cause you'll like send that and you'll be like son of a, because you know all the time you just spent, et cetera.

You know, it's [00:15:00] almost, it's almost just for Naugh because you know the Yeah, of course. Gonna see that and they're gonna be like, what? Yeah. You know? And like you're not even paying attention, et cetera. When that maybe wasn't even your intention at No, of course we're hard to come back, you know, from that.

Mariah: Yeah, definitely. But I mean, I think it's, it's a really good reminder, like obviously just to not do those bulk. Um, and actually I've been having this conversation. That's what I really wanted to talk to you about as well is like, um, personalized pitching or hyper-personalized pitching. So I have one client, um, where he works in, like, this isn't about podcasting at all, but he works in, um, strategy consulting.

You know, they're so used to just like those really bulk mass pitches, right? Like to all different types of companies and you know, not so much small business, but like enterprise medium to large businesses. And he was like, no, like it's gotta be hyper-personalized. Like it's just not gonna work anymore.

Like these bulk pitches. And actually it's funny 'cause. Because I want [00:16:00] to people to reply to me. I've gone through this phase where I've been replying to people just like politely declining because I don't wanna be ghosted. So I feel like it's an energy thing. If IP reply, people will reply to me. 

Cristina: I'll tell you as people that do this for a living, we appreciate it.

Even if they ans Oh, did, sorry, sorry, everyone that's not on Zoom, but I just raised a little hand. Raised the hand. Um, but I, I will say that from a. From the person who's pitching perspective. I love when a host, um, just, I, I truly love, even when they say no, because we then have an answer just like that. To your point, it's just like a no, this isn't the right fit.

No. Mm-hmm. You know, um, this isn't gonna work. Whatever. No. Period. Honestly, um, it gives us, uh, it just gives us that finality of Oh, okay. It's not kind of just hanging out in the ether, you know? Yeah. Like, is this gonna land? Is it not? We don't have to waste our energy on following up, et cetera. Um, so please know for any podcast host listening, like it is nice to hear back from you, [00:17:00] even if the answer might not be what we're looking for.

You know, what we're hoping for, I guess I should say. 

Mariah: Yeah, 

Cristina: of course. But it is nice to kind of have that, uh, that response there so we can kind of mark that down. 

Mariah: Yeah, yeah. No, it's def I'm, I'm trying to do that energetically so I get it back. Yeah, 

Cristina: yeah. I love that. That's how it works. 

Mariah: Yeah, exactly. So yeah, going to this like hyper-personalization, because I know that's something that.

You do, obviously you take a lot of time putting your pictures together because obviously they're really tailored to each episode or each person's podcast, and you, um, really try and find the right topic. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about that process and like, is this something you've always done since the beginning?

Is it something that you've seen like. You know, you kind of stock standard pitch, just doesn't like it used to work and now it's just like not working at all. 'cause obviously it used like people used to do bulk outreach and for anything and it would work and now it's just changed so much. 

Cristina: Absolutely. We never have a publicity by Christina though.

And the reason for that in my agency is I've been in PR for 20 years [00:18:00] and so to know. What works and what doesn't work every single time a more personalized pitched is going to work better. Mm. Um, it is always gonna get you better results by spending the time, obviously. 'cause to your point, a host is gonna be able to know right away, okay, this person has taken their time, or this person has just kind of slapped, dashing, copy and pasting something over to me.

Um, really all in my philosophy, all goes back to. Um, my days at Oregon State University when I was getting my, you know, journalism degree and things like that is, make it as easy as possible to get to the yes. Okay? Mm-hmm. And so that is what? I really believe when it comes to pitching as well and by giving really well bought out topics that work for that show's audience, you are making it as easy as possible to get a Yes.

You. I think a lot of people like, um, and tell me if I'm wrong with this, [00:19:00] when in what you get pitched, but I think they think they're making it easier for the host by saying, Hey, here are a couple things I'm an expert in. Branding, sales, marketing. You tell me what you wanna talk about and we can have a conversation, okay?

Mm-hmm. And in their mind, they're like, oh man, I am just, I'm making it so easy for them. They just tell me what they wanna talk about. I can talk about anything, but in fact, you've just given the host the job. You've essentially just said, well, now you gotta figure out what we're gonna talk about. Right?

Yeah. So by sending them three or four really well formulated topics, again, that's making it super easy for them. They're gonna see one or two of those, they're gonna be like, yes, yes. 

You know, that's, 

Cristina: that's what I wanna talk about. That's the conversation I want to have on the show. Um, and then, you know, they can just kind of move forward from there.

So that really is what my philosophy has been in my whole career and what I've taken into this as well is like, do the heavy lifting. [00:20:00] Make it so, you know, the best emails are, you know, how we talked about getting just the no period. The best are when we get yes. You know, here's the calendar link to get them booked.

Or, um, I will also say, and this is totally fine. We hear back from hosts sometimes they're like, Ooh, I like this topic, but can we shift it a little bit this way? Absolutely. Mm-hmm. You were just giving them the inspiration. Yeah. To have an episode on that you can always be fluid with, you know, how the conversation goes and what you guys end up actually talking about.

Mariah: Yeah. That's actually a really good point because yes, that does make my life a lot easier. Um, and actually I remember, um, with your episode, um. Yeah, like the couple of topics and I chose pitching and I've forgotten 'cause I think it was booked. And it got booked in advance and it was so great because the form has been filled out, um, from your assistant.

And she wrote the topic that I had said I wanted to talk about in the email. So last night when I was putting the questions together, I just, I was like, oh, I think it was pitching, but I just can't [00:21:00] remember. And I went to, yeah, lemme double check. I'm like, let's just go to the form because I couldn't find the email trail.

'cause of course, like I'm always just like. Archive or delete or whatever, and then I can never find it. Yeah. And I was like, oh my God, that is so easy. 'cause I was like, I'm pretty sure it's this. But I just wanted the confirmation. 'cause I know there was a couple of good topics. I was like, oh yeah, this one.

But it's so true, right? Like if someone says like, yeah, we can talk about marketing, and it's like, yeah, cool. Like, okay, can you talk about paid ads? Oh, no, no, no. I don't do paid ads, I just do social media, whatever. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it just, 

it just makes 

Mariah: it like so generic and I think, um, yeah.

As I'm, and, and what ends up happening with me is like I've got things in my mind of like how, what I'm doing in my business, which obviously helps me with the podcast episodes and especially my solo ones. And then it just helps me plan out my guests because say you come to me and you go, okay, let's talk about we, I can talk about pitching 'cause like.

And, and it's funny because it's a topic that I've been talking about a lot with clients 'cause they're like, oh, I don't know what, and even with me, I'm like, oh, I don't know what to say. Or, um, one of the things that we [00:22:00] got, there was a woman that came on a couple months ago that talked about pitching to media, like journalists.

And one of the tips that she gave was like, you know, ask the journalist. Just for some time to chat with them for five minutes and ask them what makes a great pitch. 'cause with journalists, obviously it's a little bit different. And one of the journalists came back to me. I, I tried it with some like really good things to cover and I covered it in my pitch and then she forwarded onto the editor.

So I was like, oh, that was like a good win. And that's, you know, when I'm looking for podcast guests, I'm looking for those like kind of wins that people can take. So when people give me those episodes that I can see a win for my audience and like a quick win or something that they can do immediately.

Then I'm like, yes. And it makes my life so much easier when I'm putting together the questions. And some, some, um, podcast hosts, don't, they just kind of go and I have like a list here, but I've kind of already gone completely off topic. But you know, like at least there's something there for like, some guidance.

Um, yeah. But yeah, I think it definitely, like with a good pitch, having some topics to talk about because then sometimes I have, like, I had [00:23:00] someone pitch me. They've got, they're in marketing and they're coming on, um, in a couple of weeks for a really cool, interesting platform. And they're the head of marketing, but, so they're not necessarily entrepreneur business owner, but because they'd given me some topics, I could see how they could fit into my show.

Whereas maybe I'd be like, oh, how am I gonna make it work? And then I'd probably give them questions that like didn't get the best out of the guest either. And I think like. That also, um, is really good too. So yeah, that's a really good tip for like making a hyper personalized pitch. Definitely adding like the topic.

So when you are, obviously you do have like a, I guess, like a, a process of a, a template of what you kind of go through pitching. What are some of the things that are really important when you are putting together a pitch? So if anyone's like, oh, I'd like to give it a go, what are some of the things that are a must have in a pitch?

Yeah. 

Cristina: I work with people to develop their pitch templates, so this is definitely something that I, you know, have spoken about for a long time and kind of what you're looking to do, because essentially what you really want is for your pitch to be 80% of the way [00:24:00] done right all the time, right? Yeah. So that when you go to do pitching or you're gonna do whatever, you've already got all these ideas, you're just gonna pick the three-ish, you know, two, maybe four, right?

Whatever. But then make the most sense for that particular audience. Mm-hmm. But you've got six written out, right? Yeah. You already have some really great topics there. So the main things that I'm looking for in a pitch template. Um, are a couple credibility markers. So a couple things that let that host know, Hey, I, I'm legit, right?

I do know what I'm talking about. You're not gonna go on and on and on about this. You're gonna kind of give some, some quick hits up there, right? Yeah. A couple sentences that just kind of talk about, Hey, I'm legit, and by the way, that doesn't need to be, I've done a TED Talk, I have a book, I've been on 50 podcasts, right?

That can be very much, uh, related to your own success in your own life. Like, let's say you are, not that you would necessarily come on this show for that, but this, but let's say you are a health coach, right? Mm-hmm. And in your own life, you have lost a [00:25:00] hundred pounds and kept that off for 10 years, right?

That's the type of thing that is a credibility marker, right? You may not have your degree in nutrition, you know, or something like that, but you're like, Hey, this is my life I've lived and I've helped. Over 50 clients do the same thing. Right? Those are credibility markers, right? Yeah. So I wanna be clear on that.

Um, so we have some of that. Then we get into those topics, right? Um, and put that out there. Have, like I said in the, in the template, we try to have like six to eight really solid topics that you're gonna call down to, like three to four when you go and send the pitch. Um, and that's pretty much that you're going to personalize it from there.

But those, those really are the meat and potatoes of the pitch itself. 

Mariah: Yeah, I love that. And yeah, it's interesting with the credibility, 'cause I imagine there's people like, oh, but what, what does that look like? You know? And I think that's why it is good to have someone go through that with you. I think, um, I heard a really awesome quote from my client who's a career counselor and she said [00:26:00] the contents of the jar can't see the label of the jar.

So that's why it is always important to get someone to help you like nut out. What are those 

Cristina: credibility? 

Mariah: I always 

Cristina: say you should ask your partner 

Mariah: Yeah. 

Cristina: Um, to how they would describe the things that you've accomplished, whether that's a romantic partner, but it could also just be like a business partner.

It could be one of your good buddies. Right. Like that could be someone in your life that knows you. 

Yeah. 

Cristina: Um, and understands that you do because they will tell you stuff that you've forgotten about that you haven't, you know, thought about in years. Yeah. All these type of things that you kind of, uh, you know, we really get, um, one of my coaches said this to me the other day.

We get success amnesia, right? Yeah, we do. We 

do these things. 

Cristina: Then we just kind of, we, especially as entrepreneurs, we keep moving forward. We don't really like think about the things that we've accomplished in the past. And, um, so it's nice to have other people that could point that out to you when need be and kind of give you some stuff there.

Mariah: Yeah, that's, that's actually a really good point. It's so funny, I have this ad running, um, I [00:27:00] don't know if it's still running. I can't remember. But anyway, I think in the caption it said like, as a credibility marker, like. Eight plus years in marketing, PR, and journalism. And someone wrote, but you look like 20, how do you, and I was like, well actually, and then I was like thinking like, yeah, that that could come across as like, what is she working when she was like 10.

But no, I'm 31. But I was like, I had done, like, I put myself out there really early on and like did a lot of work in like, yeah. But even before I started uni, I was writing in newspapers when I was 18. So like I was like, but it's so funny 'cause to someone looking at me and being like, she's like, you just look like a little sweet pea.

And it was just so funny. I was like, then I had to reflect on some of those things. But yeah, you like kind of count down the age and then you're like, oh, hang on. Do I have that experience? Someone's questioning me. And I had to go back and think about all those things. But that's a really good point. It's like, yes, you do.

Yeah. Yeah. Do. 

I 

Cristina: do like this. Not a lie. Yeah. I'm not, I I'm not [00:28:00] blowing smoke, you know? Yeah, yeah. Like this is, this is truly what I've done in my life, and I I love that you pointed that out. I think it's important to think about those things and if what you do. Does equate to a degree. Like that's a great thing to put in there too.

Yeah. You know, if, like, you're a psychol, you're a therapist, right? Mm-hmm. And you have your degree from a really prestigious place, put that in there. Right? But if, if, like I said, if you're a health coach and you don't, that's okay too. You have other things that can serve as those credibility markers there.

Yeah, 

Mariah: absolutely. No, I love that. I think that's, and it's definitely good to have people, um, help you with that. And I love what you said about kind of like having things ready to go, because I imagine. You know, listening to this, we're all busy and we wanna pitch to podcasts and we wanna be on podcast, but we're like, oh, how long do I have to spend on like one pitch?

Like obviously it's that balance between like, yeah, giving energy because obviously like that's gonna get the result, but then like not spending like hours on one pitch to potentially get a no. So I love that you say you kind of like, is there like a good process as well that you recommend having so that Yeah, it does make it a lot quicker and easier for you to, to put together.

Yeah. But [00:29:00] also it's got thought and. Love and energy into it at the same time. 

Cristina: So for what I actually teach and what I, I have a program called Booked in Broadcasted that people do like live with me, is we are pitching, um, in that program once every two months. And I generally recommend people pitch once a quarter.

And so what I mean by that is you block off a full day, once a quarter. Like you aren't, you ain't doing anything else. On this day, other than what I call a pitch sprint. Okay? Mm-hmm. But you already have your template written, right? Yeah. So all you're really doing is listening to some of the episode, which for me, that is typically the first five minutes.

The last five minutes, and like a five minute, somewhere in the middle, right? I just kind of drop my, uh, cursor or you know, my thing and I'm just like, tell me like, you know, kind of getting the vibe or getting like some anti on my, yeah. Just, those are the things that I'm generally using in the pitch. So meaning I'm not listening to a 45 minute episode.

Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] I'm not listening to like a whole episode. I'm listening to 10, 15 minutes of that show. Yeah. To kind of get, in general the vibe, what they describe their audience as. Um, you know, that type of information. Yeah. Okay. So then I'm gonna drop that into the pitch, but I've already, again, got most of it written.

I know who their audience is. By the way, you're gonna get faster and faster as you do this. You know, the first time you do a pitch sprint day, you may send out six pitches. Mm-hmm. 

Right. 

Cristina: But then, you know, the goal being that, uh, a couple of times down the road you are suddenly at where you're sending like 15 pitches.

You know what I mean, in that day. Um, and that's what we're really looking for. Like by publicists when they're pitching our clients, they're sending 15 pitches a day, right? Hmm. Um, so absolutely you will, you will get there. You know? Yeah. It's something that's gonna take a little bit of time and practice, but I find that people much prefer the once a quarter.

Once every two months. Um, cadence. Yeah. Uh, as [00:31:00] opposed to the like trying to do it every week because mm-hmm. We'll, ultimately not do it. Yes. And you'll put it on the back back up to the next week. Yeah. I'd be like, well, I could do that. Because we as business owners always put ourselves lost, right? We're always gonna do stuff for our client.

We're gonna do this other stuff. We're not gonna think about this, like, whether it's gonna happen or not, you know, et cetera. So. Highly recommend just booking off that one day a quarter. You already have your template written, which I could help you do if that's something you don't already have, and then you're just actually putting it into motion.

Mariah: Yeah, I love that, that, that sounds like right off my alley and most people's because yeah, like it's on the list. It's good in theory. Yeah. Um, and then it just goes to the next, you know, week. Finding. So I guess also part of that is finding the right shows. So what do you, do you have a process? Is there any AI involved in this process?

Like I'm keen to know how you there can be find the right, the right shows. 

Cristina: Yeah, there absolutely can be [00:32:00] AI and I can dive into that. But I'll tell you like one of the, one of the best ways to just get started is actually a very. Uh, not AI driven way, and that is to ask your audience what shows they listen to, okay?

Mm-hmm. So to actually put on your social channel, write in your newsletter, right? Uh, wherever it is that you interact with your audience. You have a YouTube channel, whatever, be like, Hey, what shows do you guys listen to? 

And it can 

Cristina: literally be as simple as that. What podcast do you guys listen to right now?

You're gonna get suggestions that are super unrelated to what you do, right? Mm-hmm. Like a lot of my audience knows I'm into true crime, so they'll send me like a true crime doc, you know, type of a thing. Look, if I'm pitching true crime shows, something has gone horribly wrong, right? Like, that is not what I do.

You know, you don't wanna 

Mariah: be sharing that kind of story yet. I might still 

Cristina: find it interesting. I might put it in my earbuds, but it's not the main thing, right? But there will always be shows that I have never heard of. Before that will come through [00:33:00] when I ask that. 'cause I ask that probably a couple times a year.

Even still, you know, what shows are you guys listening to? What do you got? Um, and so there's that. But secondarily, you could also be asking your audience, Hey, do you have a show that I could be a guest on? Right? Because when you're at the beginning of this, when I tell you you are gonna sweat and stumble your way through your first couple interviews like you are, right?

Mm-hmm. So it's totally okay if you do that on some platforms that are your buddies. Show, right? Like maybe it's not gonna bring a new client to you. Um, because definitely the strategy is a little bit different there, but if you're just trying to get used to being in front of the mic and doing all that, that could also be a really great way to do that and to have that opportunity.

Then when it comes to, um, using ai. That is absolutely something that, um, we use, we use AI for search, right? Yeah. So we will go into, I call her Chatty G, but you know, you go into your chat g pt, put 'em in there, and actually if you have that pitch template done, you can [00:34:00] upload your pitch template into it and be like, Hey, this is what I want to talk about.

Here's the general audience I want to get in front of. What are some shows that would be a good podcast shows that would be a good fit for me? Now. I like to get very specific with Chatty G. Ask me how I know. I like to say, is it a real show? Is it up to date? Um, these are all things that I will put into chat as part of the prompt because otherwise it will just make up shows.

It'll send you shows that haven't been. You know, they haven't published a new episode in three years. Yeah. You know, whatever. So you do have to get pretty specific with it. But I'll even do like a deep research search sometimes with that. I'll be like, what are 20 shows that would be a good fit for me that hit these requirements?

Some of them are gonna be shows you've heard of, you know, they're gonna be like bigger shows or be like, yeah, maybe. You know, that's a great stretch goal. Or yeah, maybe there's gonna be one that are gonna be perfect fits for you to be going and sending. Um, but typically there's things in there that we wouldn't have found just otherwise.

Mm-hmm. So I 

think 

Cristina: ai, I don't, uh, we don't necessarily write our [00:35:00] pitches with ai. Yeah. But I absolutely love to research. Yeah. With ai, I think that's like. The best, uh, part of podcast pitching to use it for. 

Mariah: Mm. Actually, it's really interesting too, now that Google's getting like, obviously a lot better with AI is, um, I was on, on the, um, a call with a client who has a platform, like a marketing tech platform like MarTech, and when I typed in like a MarTech podcast, it had like a really good, like Gemini search of ones that like Yeah, not your, like, they had obviously your big ones, like your marketing school with Neil Patel, which like.

I don't think they ever take guests. Like, I don't even think that's what they do. Yeah. But then they had some like ones that was like, oh, I haven't heard of this before. And it looked like a kind of show that. Is possibly looking for guests. So it's, it's definitely getting better. But yes, I, I, there's some like hallucination things where you're like, hang on, is that 

even true?

Is 

Mariah: that even a thing? Like whatcha are talking? I'll 

be like, send me the Apple link. Like, do it. I'm like, let me see, let me see. 

Mariah: And it's like, oh, um, seems there's a, yeah. [00:36:00] Good pickup, or, oh, you caught me. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I'm 

Cristina: like, well, I don't wanna have to catch you. You just do, you know, I want real shows.

Um, but yeah, we, we do have to get a little specific with chatty G sometimes. 'cause she'll throw some stuff out there sometimes. 

Mariah: Yeah. Yeah. Some interesting ones. But that, yeah, that's a really good place to like, because I think that was always, um, a blocker for myself even. It's like, oh, where do I even find.

Mm-hmm. 

Mariah: These shows, because obviously we know like the really big ones or like, you know, like you wanna find more niche shows or, um, shows where yeah, they, that they are accepting guests. Um, you know, because obviously some that don't or they bring on, like if you don't have a million followers, then don't, don't even bother kind of vibe.

But that's okay. You can always try, right? What's 

Cristina: the, you can always try, you can always try a lot of shows. Um. It's hard. It's hard to know ahead of time what a show is. Is like accepting, not accepting. Right? I mean, that's why I say you're gonna send a lot of pictures. They're also gonna get ghosted.

They're gonna get [00:37:00] nos, right? They're gonna get et cetera. But you have to be sending those out to get the yeses. One thing that I wanted to mention that you kind of briefly touched on, but is like the more niche y'all the better. Mm-hmm. And I truly mean that from our clients make way more money. Going on niche podcasts than they do on, I mean, we've got our clients on some big shows, okay?

Mm-hmm. And like, that's wonderful. I'm not saying there isn't value in that, and having that like proximity to power when it comes to like a brand, but for them getting discovery calls for them, getting new clients for them, bringing people in through the door. More niche podcasts are where it's at. 

Mariah: Mm.

Yeah. It makes sense. Right. And Al Al also, I don't know if you, if this is sort of like what happens as well, it's like, say it's a big, like a big show, like, I don't know, say for example, diary of a CE, for example. Yeah. Their audience might be like, oh, that person's too expensive because they're on a [00:38:00] diary of a CEO, so I'm not even gonna bother looking at their services, so I might follow them.

Yeah. And this, that, and the other. But it might be like, oh, well they're, they're obviously earning millions and like, I can't afford them. Yeah. 'cause actually that can happen. I remember like in this mastermind I was in years ago, and this woman was like, oh, I can't afford your services. Like, and I'm like, what do you need?

And like, I told her my price and she's like, oh. 'cause she was paying the same for her. Other marketing and it's like, it's funny how perception can, yeah. You know, sometimes be for sure perception can shift. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's that balance, right? Like between and, and, and also it's probably something you work with your clients as well.

Like what is the goal? Like what do you wanna get out of being on podcast? Is it just for brand awareness, visibility, audience growth? Or are you looking to get bookings? Of course, a lot of us are like, oh, I want more clients. But actually sometimes it is. That credibility piece. Maybe someone wants to pitch a TED talk and they need some like 

Yeah.

Mariah: Credibility or things like that. So it is important to kind of, 

yeah, 

Mariah: and be realistic too, right. About what you wanna [00:39:00] get outta it. I think 

Cristina: that's an important thing for people to realize about podcasts is like, this isn't a quick fix, right? This is something that you're going, if you're gonna do this, like if you're going to make podcasts a.

Large part of your marketing and kind of what you do to stay in the sustained spotlight, as I like to call it, like getting out there. You're gonna be doing it for years, you know what I mean? Um. But that is where the magic happens. That is when people know you as the expert in X, Y, Z, you are the person that goes on shows.

You are the person. When someone asks about it, that's who they're referring to. Yeah. Because they heard you on a podcast. They heard you on this. Right. Et cetera. Um, and that's always the beautiful thing with our clients is like, no matter what, like if they've worked with us for a year, at the end of that year.

There is huge momentum. 

Mariah: Yeah, of 

Cristina: course. Like their business is changing, shifting, et cetera. New leads, new opportunities, new, all these things, because we've just gotten them booked on 24 podcasts over a year, right? Mm-hmm. So [00:40:00] they are really, things are shifting in their business because they were like, they took the leap and like, I'm ready to commit to this.

Particular type of marketing and get really visible, right? Yeah. And so that's what I would aim for. Anyone who's listening to this that is like, oh, I think this could be a really cool thing. Awesome. But that is why you have to be getting out there, pitching, doing this because. You're gonna be on, you're gonna wanna be on shows continuously, you know, for, for quite a while to become that person.

Mariah: Yeah. You gotta have the time and also like you wanna have the impact. That's why a lot of us, it's like that's why we do like say marketing and social media and content. 'cause it's not just always about like leads, obviously it's about growing your business, but it's about growing your legacy and like the impact you wanna have and like you do wanna be a thought leader.

You do wanna be. Putting yourself out there. It's not just like, oh, I wanna work in the background and just sell things. Like, it's really about being a, a public figure doesn't have to be like, of influence, you know? It doesn't have to be a use my coupon code for 10% off. No, you 

know, influencer vibes, it's like 

Mariah: we [00:41:00] are creating influence and that's where like I think podcasting has, and it's just, yeah.

And it's also like a networking thing too, right? Like I've done nearly 300 episodes, so half of those, at least a guess, like I've met that many people over the space of like since 2019 or when did I start this show? I can't even remember. I think it was 2019. Like worrying 

Cristina: what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. 

Mariah: God just time flies, right?

But like, yeah, it's like consistently meeting new people and like, I think that's. Amazing as well. So being a guest on people's show, it is definitely like a networking experience as well, so I absolutely love that. Thank you so much for sharing this. So much to unpack, but is there anything else that you want to leave everyone, anyone partying advice to get us out there and pitching ourselves more?

Cristina: Yeah, I mean, I think that one thing to just keep in mind, for those of you that are listening, that self-identify as an introvert, okay? There are a lot of people out there that are listening to this episode that are like, huh, there is no way I am going on podcasts. Right? Like [00:42:00] that just seems. Like, you're like, no, I get it.

I understand it as a marketing strategy, but like, I, I, that's not gonna happen. I'm never gonna do that. I am here to tell you that my best clients are introverts, and in fact, the majority of them are, and I am not. I'm a stone cold extrovert. But, you know, many, many of them are introverts. And the reason this works so well for them as a marketing avenue is it is just a one-on-one conversation.

It's 

Cristina: just a one-on-one conversation that is something that you need to wrap your head around. Mariah and I are talking right now, but it's just the two of us, right? Yeah. There's not a hundred people in a studio audience listening to us, you know, uh, reacting to everything we're doing, et cetera. And that is where introverts shine is having a one-on-one conversation going deep with someone getting vulnerable, having that real talk, you know, et cetera.

There. It just happens to be that it's going to go out to other people later on. Okay. Yeah. Um, [00:43:00] and I think that that's a really important mindset shift for you to have, if that's feeling very scared of you, is like, no, this is actually all this is. Right? Mm-hmm. It, it feels like this big thing, but really this, this is what we're talking about.

You know, you're gonna be sitting in your office, sitting in whatever, talking to someone and having a one-on-one conversation. And you know, ideally leveraging their audience to get some, some listeners over into your world as well. Yeah, right there. 

Yeah. 

Cristina: But I think that's so important. And the other thing I wanted to point out that you kind of mentioned before, but is like.

We have to go out and do these things, even with the fear that comes alongside of it. Right? Um, the thing that I always like to ask people is like, what do you think the worst, what do you think is the worst thing that's gonna happen? Like, if you start pitching some podcasts, and God forbid they say yes, you know, now you gotta go on some podcasts like.

What do you think is the worst gonna happen? A lot of people have the same thoughts you kind of said earlier, the perfectionism, the imposter syndrome, these, you know, these things that, you know, uh, that [00:44:00] go on and those are all very real, right? Mm-hmm. Those are all very real things, but what is the worst thing that's gonna happen?

Really? Mm-hmm. Like, honestly, and I, I really think that the worst thing that gonna ha is that is gonna happen is not putting yourself out there. 

Yeah, because 

Cristina: if you do not put yourself out there, I, we didn't even get into my visibility. KPI, which is a whole other thing I talk about, but if you do not put yourself out there, your business will not grow.

Will not grow. Like you will get to a point, like if you're referral driven or you know, whatever, where it's like you are really good at what you do. That's why you built your business to, to what it is. Mm-hmm. But when you wanna make it bigger or you wanna have people coming in a more regular basis, you have to get more visible.

And this can be one of the easiest ways to be doing that. 

Mariah: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's such a good, so many good points to end with. Um, yeah. But yeah, no, it, it, it's so true because, and, and that's why like, yeah, you can be really good at what you do. And some, for some people it's [00:45:00] like, oh, well then I work for someone else and I can be really good at what I do behind the scenes.

Yes. But, um, now more than ever, like you just, yeah, you really have to. Put yourself out there. There's just too much skin in the game for everyone. Like there's too many people out there doing what we are doing. So you have to be seen and be visible. Otherwise, no one's gonna know about 

Cristina: you up that know, like, and trust with your potential clients.

Right? Yeah. They, your voice, they hear your story and they're gonna be on board. 

Mariah: Yeah, absolutely. And, and that's earned media, right? Like obviously you can have your social media and you can have, but like, mm-hmm. Different. There's nothing different. More trusty. Yeah. And, and also I love what you say about like the, um, introverts like having that just like natural conversation in the comfort of your own home, like.

You know, if you do get really nervous or, um, you, you can have like whatever comforts you to like, you know, put, you put yourself out, that you don't have to be on stage, right? Like, it's the worst thing that can happen is your blanket. 

Cristina: You can have your whatever, you know what I mean? Um. [00:46:00] Just be com, have your favorite drink, have, you know, whatever you want, and you know, be able to have that conversation with someone who is interested in talking with you.

Right. Someone who is also wanting to have a conversation. Yeah. 

Mariah: Yeah. I mean, as I said, the worst thing can happen is internet, which I've had. It's just so annoying. You know that, that is literally the worst thing that could happen. 'cause you're in flow. I cut you off three times. I'm so sorry for that. But anyway.

Cristina: All good girl. I've been on over a hundred podcasts. I'm I'm GI like you've seen it all. You've seen it all. Yeah. I'm like, she'll be back. I'm not worried. Yeah. 

Mariah: I'll just hang out here. I know. Anyway, that's fine. I'm gonna sip 

Cristina: on my sip on my Coke. Zero. Yeah, well 

Mariah: you can go and, and enjoy the rest of your McDonald's unless you've eaten it all.

Um. It is like, it's so funny. It's just like a totally different, like I'm, I'm raring for the day. You're winding down for the day. I know. It's always happens, isn't it? 

Cristina: I know. I'm like, now I gotta go put this kid to bed. But yes, 

Mariah: now, and now she's hyped up on Happy Meals. I know. So, good luck. 

Cristina: We'll, we'll get through it.

We'll get through it. 

Mariah: I, amazing. Well, how can people find you and learn more about your work? Because I know a lot of people [00:47:00] need more support with the whole visibility thing and, and you know, even just sitting down to do it. I think that accountability, like I need someone to sit me down and be like, just.

Pitch the bloody things and just do it. 

Cristina: Exactly, exactly. I would love to have folks come over, visit me@podcastpublicityquiz.com. It's a really fun, interactive quiz I have that kind of shows you like. Is it the more DIY route you're looking for? Are you looking for a team to do it for you? You know, what makes kind of the most sense there?

And then also always come find me over on Instagram at publicity X Christina. Um, I love when people message me that they heard me on a podcast interview. Um, it seriously makes like my whole day. Um, so please do if you listen to this, come find my Instagram. I think I share funny stuff about my life and about what we do, so.

Yeah, come on over. 

Mariah: Amazing. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today. Absolutely. Thank you Moran. Okay. Amazing. Right? Got me motivated to pitch. So are we gonna put in our calendars, keep each other accountable? Because let's do it. Let's do it together. Let's be on more podcasts. I used to have a [00:48:00] goal of like, yeah, like three a quarter, one a month kind of vibes.

And I have slipped off that. So if you wanna. Be held accountable. Send me a message on Instagram and I'm sure Christina would love to support you. So check out all the things that Christina does. I'll put it all in the show notes. Be a content queen or king. And remember the developing your strategy and story develops your business, and also of course, sharing your story on other people's podcast.

Thank you so much for joining us today. Please don't forget to share this with all your business and entrepreneurial friends. You can do this by adding it to your Instagram stories and tagging us at content Queen Mariah, or just tell them about it and if you do rate and review, it does help me get amazing guests like Christina on and the ones that wanna keep coming back.

Right. So if you love the guests, you love the content, please leave a comment on Spotify, a review on Apple, five Stars, whatever. It literally takes two seconds and it can really help us build this show up together. Follow me on Instagram or TikTok and let me know if there are any guests you'd like me to get on any topics you'd like me to talk about.

I would love to do that, and I'll talk to you soon. Bye.

PodcastMariah MacInnesmarketing, marketing advice, how to be authentic online, business ownerComment